this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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Rough Roman Memes

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A place to meme about the glorious ROMAN EMPIRE (and Roman Republic, and Roman Kingdom)! Byzantines tolerated! The HRE is not.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 weeks ago (18 children)

Explanation: The Roman Emperor Caligula, sometimes said to be mad, once threatened (or joked, depending on who you ask) to make his horse consul, one of the two leaders of the Senate. Caligula was a tyrant, a dick, impulsive, and petty, but one can argue he wasn't mad. Just... well, a tyrant, a dick, impulsive, and petty. And with a cruel sense of humor.

The Roman Emperor Elagabalus had a much more discernable form of madness - youth mixed with ultimate power. Elagabalus was a teenager when they (as their gender identity is a matter of perpetual debate) were oh-so-wisely granted absolute autocratic power over a continents-spanning Empire by the political machinations of their grandmother. Two of their more notable offenses were proclaiming themselves to be the Syrian sun god, and having young women hitched to their chariot like horses to pull them around Rome, whipping them all the while.

While you can say teenagers fulfilling all their most wild teenage fantasies with no one to stop them isn't 'real' madness, it seems closer to it than flexing on Senators and daring them to defy you as a petty show of power!

[–] eestileib 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Elagabala made it very clear to her contemporaries how she wanted to be addressed, I don't understand why people insist on acting like they're being enlightened by disrespecting her wishes. It's privileging transphobes to let them tell us we can'r trust people like Elagabala to tell us who she was.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

There's an enduring question as to how reliable the sources are as to Elagabalus's wishes. As such the question of whether Elagabalus was trans, or nonbinary, remains. I would regard only referring to Elagabalus as a man as inappropriate.

[–] eestileib 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

We don't have to make her fit into a contemporary gender model to respect her clearly stated wishes.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

to respect her clearly stated wishes.

There’s an enduring question as to how reliable the sources are as to Elagabalus’s wishes.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'd like to ask you about your sources now, but I don't know how not to make it sound like I don't believe you :) I just became really interested in Elagabalwhatevertheendingofthenameis and I'd love to read some more. I know nothing about Syrian history, unfortunately.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cassius_Dio/80*.html

Cassius Dio here refers to Elagabalus as 'The False Antoninus', 'Avitus', and 'Sardanapalus'; Elagabalus was the name of the Syrian sun god they identified with.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Thank you. And now excuse me, I'm jumping right into this rabbit hole!

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