War in Ukraine

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War is organized murder and nothing else.

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How F-16s Will Change the Battlefield in Ukraine (wesodonnell.medium.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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After months of debate in Washington, Ukraine looks set to be getting its hands on this lethal Western fighter very soon. The first batch of F-16s will be arriving in Ukraine in late September, and NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg said that the training of Ukrainian personnel has already started.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think there are other ways to fight authoritarianism. It can definitely include violence, but imo only as a defensive measure. Right now it's all about the offense.

I also don't think Putin or its successor will all of a sudden become non-authoritarian when Ukraine wins back all territory. The threat (and fact) of Russian leadership oppressing people will stay, regardless of how far the Ukrainians push back the Russians. Setting up defenses will be needed regardless of how this war will end.

Right now innocents are dying in terrible conditions over this political play. I understand that you believe that that is less important than winning back territory, to the point that you support creating more suffering and death by letting other parties bring more death machines to the war. I think I have clearly outlined that I value these things differently.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

On the contrary, I value human life above all else, the issue that we disagree upon is how best to protect that life. I can see your standpoint of stopping the killing now to protect people now, but where I fall on this is that I believe it's only a short term gain and that longer term more people will die as it's clear that Russia intends on occupying the whole of Ukraine.

You seem to class Ukraine taking back its own territory as an offensive measure, but I'd class it as defensive. If someone breaks into your house and you push them out of your bedroom into your hallway, you don't just stop there and say "Okay, lets stop the violence here, you can have the hallway". You wouldn't stop until they're outside of your house again.

At least we can agree that the threat of Russia isn't going away and Ukraine will have to defend its territory in future, but that's all the more reason to push them fully back and reclaim all of the territory: If by the end of all of this, Russia has gained nothing, after all the cost and bloodshed, they'll think twice before trying it again. Allowing them to "save face" now is setting them up to spin the whole thing at some point in the future - maybe 5 or 10 years from now.