this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2024
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Oh great, I guess there's no real problems then, and everyone's is just hallucinating their economic troubles into existence.
Thank God the New York times editorial board is there to clear that up for us.
That's a nonsense take — nobody claiming that there is no hardship; only that the US has done a lot better than most other countries at handling the economic fallout from the pandemic.
Take your pick, you can't have it both ways.
Either Biden's economic policies have been great for the economy, and everyone saying otherwise is just spreading disinformation, or is misinformed.
Or, his policies have helped a certain class of wealthy Americans, while leaving the rest of the middle and working to decline, just like every other administration of the last 40 years.
So which is it?
It's actually been pretty good for most people; we had an incredible recovery from the highest unemployment since the Great Depression, and wages have started outpacing inflation again over the past 18 months. And inflation came down without mass unemployment.
That doesn't mean everybody had identical outcomes.
Wow you've really internalized MSNBC talking points. And I mean that literally, I'm pretty sure I heard those exact same words from one, or multiple anchors, in the last several weeks.
Like I said, glad to hear everything is all going great, just like MSNBC pundits and NYT op-ed are claiming.
Honestly, you should volunteer for the Harris campaign. Already got your door knocking elevator pitch down pat.
So you've got no evidence for your point, just insults and denial.
It's not insults, I'm pointing out that I've heard that exact same speech on MSNBC, and that it's also very good campaign rhetoric.
I'm sorry that you feel insulted because I called out your plagiarizing talking points, but it's Lemmy, I assume most users plagiarize at least some of their comments. It's not a big deal IMO.
And seriously..? Did you really ask me to prove that the economy isn't working for working class people?
I haven't claimed that it's perfect for everybody — just that for most people, it's a lot better. More people are working than pre-pandemic. Inflation went down to normal levels. Median wages are rising faster than inflation.
Those things didn't happen in every country, and it's a credit to policy under the Biden administration that they have.
Saying inflation is down to normal levels, is like saying your house is no longer on fire... because it already burnt down.
So now that we've addressed that pretty blatant spin on inflation levels, let's go on to how wages are outpacing it.
Because of course, you don't mean wages have kept up with inflation through his administration. You just want to compare some conveniently specific points in time where you can finagle that stat to work in your rhetorical favour.
And do I really have to explain why using the number of jobs as a stat, instead of quality of jobs, is just more MSNBC, NYT, and Harris campaign smoke and mirror BS?
As I've said, this is a seriously dumb take — the world isn't some perfect place, but US policy resulted in less overall inflation before getting things back to normal than most other developed countries. That's an indication that we had better policy.
Wait, are you kidding? Hahaha nice dude.
You lay out completely bogus and rigged stats to support your case.
But when I call out how bogus and rigged those stats are, that's a really dumb take?
Okay buddy. Got it.
So you have no evidence and need to resort to conspiracy theories
Which conspiracy theories have I resorted to? Please explain.
Are you going to make me go get data showing that wages have not risen relative to the recent periods of hyper inflation?
I'm sorry, is that a secret? A hidden truth?
Say the word, you tell me that you didn't know that, and I will go pull the economic reports for you.
you're wasting your time arguing with asealion.
I'm making the point for others reading it, not for the troll.
fair point.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what conspiracy theories I'm trolling with.
Cuz it seems like to me one of us is actually aware of the economic indicators, and broader economic trends, and the other, is you.
You know how a freight train can take miles to stop after the brakes are applied? The economy is like a big ass train, so any changes are going to take a long time to take effect. The train is slowing down, but expecting it to stop on a dime is just unrealistic.
So what you're saying is, is that Biden really wants to help the economy, and he wants it to be better, but it's too big for that to happen?
I'm sorry, setting aside the pedantic nature of your grade school math problem turned economics analogy, it actually supports my contention that the New York Times is blowing smoke up our collective asses.
No, I'm saying things are getting better but it's happening slowly and we have to be patient.
Let's agree, to disagree, on where the economy is going to end up, or it's broader trends.
That's not relevant here, because this article, and many of the commenters, contend that it's already doing good, and it has been doing good for some years now.
Which was my entire point, that it's smoking mirrors, using intentionally disingenuous figures like raw job numbers, and stock market performance, as if that translates to the wider economy of the working class, or any American outside of the top end of the economy.
You are right that jobs figures and the stock market don't necessarily translate to the working class. What does are things like union activity and membership which have increased. Labor is striking for better wages and winning. Office workers are pushing for work-from-home options and winning.
Energy cost have dropped significantly. Gas prices are down to $3.26 from $3.93 this time last year. Food inflation is down to 2.1% this year, which is comparable to what it was before the pandemic. Yeah, meat prices are still high, but fruits, vegetables, and grains are down. All significant improvements for the average person.