this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I would argue that it's obvious if someone doesn't know how to use a tool to do their job, they aren't great at their job to begin with.

Your argument is to blame the tool and excuse the person who is awful with the tool.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

my argument is that lazy devs use the tool because that's what it was designed for.

just calling a hammer a hammer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 39 minutes ago (1 children)

Using a tool to speed up your work is not lazy. Using a tool stupidly is stupid. Anyone who thinks these tools are meant to replace humans using logic is misunderstanding them entirely.

You remind me of some of my coworkers who would rather do the same mind numbing task for hours every day rather than write a script that handles it. I judge them for thinking working smarter is "lazy" and I think it's a fair judgement. I see them as the lazy ones. They'd rather not think more deeply about the scripting aspect because it's hard. They rather zone out and mindlessly click, copy/paste, etc. I'd rather analyze and break down the problem so I can solve it once and then move onto something more interesting to solve.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 minutes ago (1 children)

They rather zone out and mindlessly click, copy/paste, etc. I’d rather analyze and break down the problem so I can solve it once and then move onto something more interesting to solve.

From what I've seen of AI code in my time using it, it often is an advanced form of copying and pasting. It frequently takes problems that could be better solved more efficiently with fewer lines of code or by generalizing the problem and does the (IMO evil) work of making the solution that used to require the most drudgery easy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 minutes ago

What you seem intent on missing though, is that if you use these kinds of tools mindlessly, then you are an irresponsible idiot. If you use them properly, then you spend less time typing boring shit which a skilled programmer can easily proofread much more quickly than type or look up in docs.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Some tools deserve blame. In the case of this, you're supposed to use it to automate away certain things but that automation isn't really reliable. If it has to be babysat to the extent that I certainly would argue that it does, then it deserves some blame for being a crappy tool.

If, for instance, getter and setter generating or refactor tools in IDEs routinely screwed up in the same ways, people would say that the tools were broken and that people shouldn't use them. I don't get how this is different just because of "AI".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 37 minutes ago (1 children)

Okay, so if the tool seems counterproductive for you, it's very assuming to generalize that and assume it's the same for everyone else too. I definitely do not have that experience.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 18 minutes ago) (1 children)

It's not about it being counterproductive. It's about correctness. If a tool produces a million lines of pure compilable gibberish unrelated to what you're trying to do, from a pure lines of code perspective, that'd be a productive tool. But software development is more complicated than writing the most lines.

Now, I'm not saying that AI tools produce pure compilable gibberish, but they don't reliably produce correct code either. So, they fall somewhere in the middle, and similarly to "driver assistance" technologies that half automate things but require constant supervision, it's quite possible that the middle is the worst area for a tool to fall into.

Everywhere around AI tools there are asterisks about it not always producing correct results. The developer using the tool is ultimately responsible for the output of their own commits, but the tool itself shares in the blame because of its unreliable nature.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 minute ago

Copilot produces useful and correct code for me 5 days a week. I'm sorry you don't see the same benefits.