this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024

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submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (13 children)

However, America has been a country championing socialist policy for almost 100 years.

Uh, what?

You have horrible social security and labour laws. If anyone has been "championing socialist policies", it's the Nordics, or if talking labour rights especially, France definitely more than the US.

The American anti-socialist rhetoric is so bad it has its own name. Even very moderate socialist policies are often disparaged as "communism".

There's so much libertarianism online now, mostly affected by said American rhetoric, that I've actually met an idiot here in Finland who genuinely argued that homelessness and unemployment is a conscious choice by anyone suffering either.

You sound a bit like Peter Thiel in this clip (played on John Oliver) where he is pretending Trump's rhetoric has deeper meaning.

Since most aren't gonna listen here's the transcript:

Peter Thiel: I think a lot of the voters who vote for Trump, take Trump seriously, but not literally. And so when they hear things like the Muslim comment or the wall comment or things like that, It's not, the question is not, you know, are you gonna build a wall like the Great Wall of China, or, you know, how exactly are you gonna enforce these tests? What they hear is, we're gonna have, we're gonna have a saner, more sensible immigration policy.

Cut back to John Oliver

Oliver: Oh, yeah, that is definitely the sense I got from watching those Trump rallies. Yes, while we are all furiously chanting, "build that wall", we all understand in this context, wall is a clever use of metonymy, or a figure of speech in which 1 word, wall in this example, is used as a stand-in for a saner, more sensible immigration policy. Now, if you will, let's unpack "Trump the bitch".

[–] ultramaven -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (8 children)

You’ve never heard of Social Security? I personally think it’s important to highlight the fundamental pieces of government that already work using systems people could classify as “socialist”. You pay in. You get you cut. The government uses everyones money as leverage.

The context, is the current population is quite literally on the precipice of throwing out modern liberal democracy all together.

I agree, of course, there are many other components to being human in America that the government isn’t properly established to deal with. But people who already hate the idea of socialism, they should understand that America grew to what it is, what it was, in part because of those policies.

It’s also a much better story to wrap yourself in than WW2 dominance and trickle-down horse-shit, and the ever-constant reminder of failed reconstruction and native demolition. America came together once, in the darkness of the Depression, to build a foundation. The last several generations, even those that existed when these programs were established, have existed to destroy and steal and gut. But Reagan told us all it was the government’s fault, and in the golden hue of the 1980s, who the fuck needed Social Security? It was those same government programs that saved Americas cities, that built Americas roads. Many of the tracks may be gone, but they’ve all been replaced with internet cables — similarly a public enterprise.

America is not a socialist country, it’s constitution needs rewritten. But so much of what makes America what it is, what Americans understand America to be, is solely because of social liberalism. And all of these people that are voting Trump, they should understand that. Because Trump literally stands for demolishing all of it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (4 children)

You’ve never heard of Social Security?

Oh, you've never heard of the The Democratic People's Republic of Korea? As you can see from the name, they're definitely democratic.

The US social security is a bad joke compared to other developed nations.

To say "USA has been championing socialist policies for 100 years" is on the same level as saying "China has been championing personal freedom for 100 years".

The US doesn't even have direct presidential elections, which by the standard of developed democratic nations is extremely weird.

There's a lot there I don't need to comment on. I'm challenging you on your "America has been championing socialist policies for 100 years" comment.

Compared to European social security and labour laws, US socialist policies and labour laws are pretty much on the level of developing nations — if that.

Case in point; Among 41 countries, only U.S. lacks paid parental leave

Are you honestly trying to use public roads as an example of "having championed socialist policies"? Not exactly the most novel or progressive policy, I would say.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-paradigm-shift-in-social-policy-how-finland-conquered-homelessness-a-ba1a531e-8129-4c71-94fc-7268c5b109d9

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver - Homelessness

https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-security-benefits-are-modest

Social Security benefits in the United States are lower than many other developed countries.

You have people who are employed full time, some even in two jobs, who still have to live and shit on the street.

"Championing socialist policies" lol

[–] ultramaven 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Literal strawman nonsense, look at this man go. I think you should understand that America is attempting to erode a woman’s right to vote. That’s what I’m saying. That all these people that think America should continue down the path of abandoning modern democracy should look into Americas past and understand the points in time in which it has championed for rights.

Thats the way you use that word. You’re literally admitting you’re ESL and can’t use English as well as I can. You’ve built a massive strawman on this simple fact. Other commentors can see my point. You can’t. Sorry.

Like I actually can’t believe you’ve built this massive of a strawman, it’s incredible. All because you don’t know the definition of a word. That’s literally all you go back to, as well. Nothing else I say matters. You just masturbate to your strawman, Mr Fin.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You don't understand what a strawman argument is.

ESL? No, that's "English as a second language". Mine is technically third. My English is better than 60% native speakers (a large 60min test by a professional). And that counts countries which aren't on the level of developing nations when it comes to literacy figures

America is attempting to erode a woman’s right to vote.

America has been championing socialist policies for 100 years.

So which one do you believe in this one?

It's quite hilarious how often I end up teaching Americans English. While this is my third language, I'm fairly sure I've used it longer, more and in more academic contexts than you have. That's why I don't make up meanings for words when someone proves me wrong.

champion verb

vigorously support or defend the cause of.

"he championed the rights of the working class and the poor"

Once I answered your arse-ignorant "well when did your country" bullshit you got shaken and started shifting your asinine goalposts. The US has never CHAMPIONED socialist policies, let alone even using them. Still don't.

It's incredibly ironic how you think saying "you got the wrong definition" will work, and how "other commentors can see". Yes, they can. They will be able to even check the definition (which I've linked btw, but you ofc haven't, as your definition of the word is made up) and see that "champion" doesn't exactly mean what you pretend it does. :)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/champion

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/champion

Even if you forgo the most used definitions, and try to find a niche one that's even remotely similar to how you're using it...? Nah. The closest ones still will have at least "enthusiastic" in them. The way you use it to say "America has been championing socialist policy for 100 years" is incorrect.

America has been actively suppressing socialist policies, socialist movements and even socialist countries. These are facts.

So I don't know what "English" you're using, but here in the real world "champion" doesn't mean "actively fighting against".

"Mr. Fin"

See you can't even write Finn, which is the demonym for a Finnish person. You use the noun which means a literal fin. Like those things fish have. :D