Maybe I’m misunderstanding. I grew up in NYC, and “father” absolutely does rhyme with “bother”. Just listen to Run DMC: “they even bother my poor father cause he’s down with me.”

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago

Even by how complex it is, this map is obviously an oversimplification

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

How can those not rhyme!?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

Looks like the difference is between the rounded and unrounded back open vowels /ɑ/ and /ɒ/. This site has an IPA chart where you can hear the differences. The father-bother merger hasn't happened in my (NE) accent, but I didn't know that pretty much everywhere else merged the two. Interesting that cot-caught merged for NE but not father-bother.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Younger New Yorkers do have the father-bother merger, but older New Yorkers don’t.

Also, Run DMC probably speak African-American English, which, as this map says, is generally independent of other dialects and not included on this map.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This just doesn’t jibe with my experience, and I still have family there.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

The Run DMC lyric actually sounds like the (previously unmerged) father vowel /ɑ/ went toward the bother vowel /ɒ/ than the other way around. I might even put it as /ɔ/ or /o/ when listening to the sounds on the IPA chart.

Whereas if you listen to the pronunciations on Merriam Webster father and bother it actually lists them both as /ä/, which is apparently a near-back vowel instead of back. I don't know which one NY does though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

I'm 41. Mary, Merry, marry, are completely different words.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Flatbush area checking in. Yuh Fahthuh's cawlin. Don't bohther me

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Shout Grand Concourse, ya heard?