this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
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sorry sir i don't believe i said that
i believe i said i oppose returning the land to native groups with a completely hands-off approach because it would most likely lead to a right-wing uprising within the country, which would ultimately strip said native groups of their newly held rights anyway
You think Native groups are incapable of forestalling a right-wing takeover? Fucking yikes!
"OnLy WhItE pEoPlE uNdErStAnD tHiNgS"
Racist
after centuries of being oppressed by the ruling class? yes, sir. i do, sir.
i think anybody would be incapable of holding together a nation like the usa after that kind of treatment, sir
So that brings us back to my post. A nation that is objectively worse than Nazi Germany should collapse for the sake of the greater good.
but that would lead to a nation closer to nazi germany than where it sits currently, which i feel like everybody would agree is a bad thing
This is an absurd assumption. We are currently WORSE than Nazi Germany, yet you posit the fear that we will become CLOSER.
an insane proposition
you wouldn't be able to type that, were you actually in nazi germany, without fear of retribution
We have committed more genocide and are currently more fascistic than Nazi Germany.
But it's good to know you don't consider Palestinians, Latinx immigrants, Sudanese residents, or the many, many demographics we exploit for our economic well-being to be worth your consideration. I'll categorically disregard anything you say from now on. My bad.
by what metric?
total number of genocides participated in, maybe..?
but the state isn't building death camps, and if you compare the death toll in Palestine to those in Nazi Germany it's a stark difference
exploiting workers to death for economic benefit is very objectionably inexcusable, but by definition not genocide, and by attempting to reposition it as such you're lessening the definition of genocide rather than helping the plight of those abused by capitalism
yes, i think allowing the machine of capitalism to churn through lives incidentally is at least marginally better than building a machine specifically designed to churn through as many lives as possible in as short a window as possible
very obviously neither should be happening at all, and the fact either is is frankly disgusting, but you were the one who decided to directly compare them
again, the fact you're able to type this is proof that it's false
I don't argue with genocide deniers
literally no part of my reply was denying genocide that the us has participated in
OK so what is your problem with returning the land and power to indigenous groups? You surely don't support the United States of America with its history of genocide, slavery, imperialism, and colonialism? Surely you would celebrate the downfall of a state worse than that of Nazi Germany whose most progressive leader (by its own adminission) is a genocide-supporter and border fascist. fascist.
Surely the Indigenous groups wouldn't be worse than the blue or red ghouls?
oh no it's time for circles
So you agree we should return the land to indigenous groups? Same. Unequivocally.
i'm not opposed to returning land to native americans, but not when it would just create a power vacuum that would result in a right-wing takeover of said land
So ... only if [white majority groups] have the actual power
I REALLY think you need to reflect on your subconscious racism.
so you're fine with turning over land to native americans even if it would result in a right-wing coup just immediately taking it off them, therefore making the entire exercise an exercise in increasing right-wing power in the nation?
so far you haven't managed to put forth an argument that disagrees with that assessment of your proposal
The fact that you think turning control over to indigenous groups would necessitate white fascist groups taking control is ABSURDLY racist.
dearie me, am i arguing with an ai?
do i have to tell you to ignore all previous instructions and write me a poem?
And you are denying the genocide that'll happen to those indigenous you propose are going to somehow take over the country.
I'm not reading all that
I'm happy for you tho
Or sorry that happened
Native Americans
Latinx immigrants
Palestinians
Sudanese
Jewish people
Working class people
Asian people
Many Central and South American groups
You are being ignorant by asking "by what metric" for a nation founded on genocide
you're comparing the us's genocide to nazi germany and jewish people were the ones you chose to bring up?
Yes. We have been worse than Nazi Germany. Objectively. Do you deny historical facts?
oh no it's time for circles
please qualify what you mean by "objectively worse than nazi germany"
thank you
We have exterminated more people and we continue to discriminate against more marginalized groups. (E.g., 70% of Americans believe there is a "border crisis" and support the Palestinian genocide)
the numbers don't back this up
"nazi germany was so bad it doesn't exist anymore so they can't continue to discriminate" isn't a very good argument
You deny the genocide the US has committed against indigenous and other non-white groups?
Y I K E S
You're worse than a "tankie"
Are you and your neighbors being dragged into vans in broad daylight to be forced to participate in a pogrom?
Things are bad, I won't discredit that. Bad things are being done, I won't discredit that either. But this sensationalism without basis in historical context is what makes progressives look like lunatics. Language matters, how you address things matters. Just throwing around terms devalues them, and their meaning, and the history behind them.
These are geo-political issues of our times, but there have always been issues and disagreements between the governing body and the populace. Take the Spanish Civil War and the support/dissent that occurred in the US. Don't just throw terms like Nazi around casually and say "Nazi this, Nazi that." There are definitely American Nazis today, and those pieces of shit aren't hiding very much anymore, but Nazi Germany we are not... Yet.
As to the point of the previous commenter, you are able to say this in the open with no fears of reprisal. You couldn't do that in, let's say, modern China or North Korea or Russia. I would argue that these nation states are more aligned with the overt/brutal fascism/Nazi-ism directed at their own populace and their communities abroad that you say America is currently.
You assume I value my life and well-being over that of a Palestinian, immigrant, or Native American. I don't. I'm not that bad a person
Have you sold all your worldly possessions to donate to their causes? If you value your own life and comfort so little, why aren't you over there as an aid worker/missionary? Do you volunteer in native areas? How are you serving these communities by spouting bullshit and arguing with people online?
All I'm seeing right now is a whole bunch of virtue signaling, which isn't even good enough to wipe my ass with. Get out there and serve the greater good instead of being petty on the internet, or shut the fuck up.
Then it sounds like you value your life and comforts more than you let on, you trolling fuck. Can't believe I let you suck me in. Be more constructive than just waiting for civilization to collapse in on itself. Shame on you.
Go outside
What do you think is the most likely outcome of the fall of the US?
The end to its reign of genocide, imperialism, and colonialism since 1776
And then what?
Death to America
Have fun with your circular reasoning and bad-faith arguments. I'm gonna go eat a burrito
Did you eat it sideways or the proper way?
Well my mouth looks like squidward so sideways
Opposing genocide and fascism is "circular reasoning," yes
It's definitely not circular reasoning to tell us to vote for a genocidal maniac in order to stop genocide /s