this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
200 points (93.5% liked)

politics

18651 readers
3612 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I normally don't even want to get involved in posting a drumbeat of "here's something about Biden staying in the race" stories because, (1) I'm not sure he should, and (2) it doesn't "cancel out" the waste of time that is the incessant drumbeat of articles about how he should drop out. It's like taking uppers to counteract downers; it just doesn't work that way, it makes everything worse. And the amount of press this whole thing is getting and the way it's being presented is absolutely fuckin absurd.

But that being said, I want to post this one because I like Elizabeth Warren quite a lot and I think what she says gets to the core of the issue.

Also, if you are a Democratic politician or donor and you want to replace Biden with someone else, surely talking to the press about how he should drop out without anyone in particular in mind that you're talking to them about as a replacement, and a strategy to get that person into place, should be an absolute last, last, last resort for a way to get that done. And probably not even then.

Biden's thing of "If you want to replace me then mount a challenge at the convention, that's what it's for, and whoever wins, let's fuckin fight the real enemy" makes quite a bit of sense to me, and the longer this goes on, the less sense the people who are talking to the press about him dropping out make.

So here you go, here's a story about someone who thinks he should stay in and what she has to say.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (8 children)

Some version of that sounds pretty good, yes. I do think there’s a legitimate conversation to be had about what candidate would be best instead of just “fuck you it’s Biden,” even though the time is pretty fuckin tight at this point. As Biden pointed out, the convention is where that can happen, which would give people time to organize a competitor candidate or two and get their ducks in a row for how to run their challenger.

Since Biden is such an objectively weak candidate that no one supports him anymore and he can’t even put a sentence together, that should be easy to do. Right?

What I, and I think Warren, are objecting to, is the stupid idea that Biden should just respond to the obvious conservative-media thirst for the idea of him dropping out, and play into the Republicans’ hands, and hope that the DNC can come through in a clutch and come up with an alternate plan from scratch without tripping over their dicks and falling down at the critical moment as they are wont to often do.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (7 children)

the obvious conservative-media thirst for the idea of him dropping out

I see no reason to believe that the conservatives want him to drop out, and many reasons to believe they want him to stay in.

There's absolutely no question that they're outnumbered. With a fully engaged voting public, they can't possibly win. Their only hope is to prevent as many people as possible from voting, and discourage as many more as possible.

Additionally, they've spent the last four years flogging the "Biden crime family" narrative, so all they have to do against Biden is stay the course. A new candidate would need an entirely new set of oppositional propaganda, and they wouldn't have much time in which to get it to take root.

I would think that pretty much the last thing in the world they'd want would be for the Democrats to make an 11th hour switch to an entirely different candidate, and quite possibly a candidate who will inspire the sort of enthusiasm Biden's candidacy is sorely lacking.

and hope that the DNC can come through in a clutch and come up with an alternate plan from scratch without tripping over their dicks and falling down as they are wont to often do.

Now that I agree with pretty much entirely, with only the proviso that, Hanlon's Razor notwithstanding, I tend to ascribe their failures more to malice than incompetence (though it could be argued that since it appears to boil down to stultifyingly shallow self-interest, it could qualify as just a different sort of incompetence).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I see no reason to believe that the conservatives want him to drop out, and many reasons to believe they want him to stay in.

They sure as fuck have a funny way of showing it

I am referring to the New York Times and CBS News and whatever other crap here, as conservative media. Not the modern meaning of conservative, i.e. Nazi, like Fox News or Newsmax. I'm not sure what they are saying about Biden needing to drop out but I am assuming they are also talking about it, with much of the same self-fulfilling prophecy aspect about it.

I would think that pretty much the last thing in the world they'd want would be for the Democrats to make an 11th hour switch to an entirely different candidate, and quite possibly a candidate who will inspire the sort of enthusiasm Biden's candidacy is sorely lacking.

My god dude

The enthusiasm you are perceiving or not perceiving is purely media created. You are consuming some made up bullshit and imagining that it corresponds to reality, and that the media will suddenly be excited about this new candidate. They will not. They will find problems with the new candidate just as genuine as Biden's fuckup of a debate, and if you start wringing your hands at that point about what a big deal it is and how maybe now we need a new candidate that people can get some enthusiasm about, the people that bankroll the media that gave you that idea will laugh and laugh, with pure contempt for you, and with a certain quiet conviction of the sureness of their victory.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

You're arguing with a figment of your imagination.

If you have any interest in actually discussing/debating with me rather than the caricature in your mind, let me know.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)