this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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This is a good decision. Antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. 4782 antisemitic incidents in 2023, which is 83% more than the year before. 58% of these incidents occured after Oct 7.
While I don't doubt that more Germans are becoming more antisemitic, promoting zionism does not combat antisemitism. Lord Balfor (of the Balfor Declaration), was extremely antisemitic. He was very explicit about how removing jews from Britain and getting a shiny new colony were both positives.
But also that statistic is useless because a significant number people arrested in Germany for antisemitism since Oct 7 were Jews protesting against Israel.
That article you linked does not contain anything controversial. No shit, "from the river to the sea" is forbidden in Germany and attending a forbidden demonstration where crimes are conducted has the risk of being detained.
Don't act like people end up in prison here for criticizing the state of Israel. People get detained for a couple of hours in the context of demonstrations all the time. Stop derailing, the article from the Qatari news agency you linked does not add anything here.
You understand why this is fucked up right? Is it also forbidden to say "Hawaii will be free" or "Free Tibet"?
Germans are clowns.
Not every german.
But it's depressing every time I talk politics with one and it turns out they're a "leftist" who's actually a liberal, or an "anarchist" who's a zionist, or a "green" who supported ending all nuclear power (which restarted their coal industry), an "anti-imperialist" who only opposes Germany's enemies.
I expect this level of ignorance from American liberals who've literally never had a thought outside bourgeois democracy, half of Germany was communist until 30 years ago, they don't have an excuse.
Of course not. This is something entirely different. /s
It really isnβt
I thought this is obvious. I'll mark it with /s now to make sure everyone understands.
Yeah no in the context of a german explaining why rounding up jews and throwing them in jail for protesting Israel is no big deal, you gotta be really, really obvious when you're making a joke since we're already well past poe's law.
My bad. In that case, right on!
From the river to the sea is not forbidden in Germany. There are several court rulings on this. Ironically, when Netanyahu wants a Jewish ethnostate from the river to the sea, that is perfectly fine for the same people who erroneously claim that saying β From the river to the seaβ would be forbidden to say.
These statistic say little as the German police does not properly distinguish between antisemitism and anti-zionism.
But regardless, if you are so extreme in your views that you can't accept the existence of the state of Israel in some shape or form, you are probably not a good fit for German society.
I'm not sure what you want to imply here. I do not see the benefit in asking the offender why they beat up the Jewish person.
I cited numbers from a study by RIAS (Wiki, German), this is not from a police statistic.
The study distinguishes Isreal-related antisemitism, meaning the incidents were directed against the Jewish state of Israel and denied its legitimacy. This kind of antisemitism was 52%.
Incidence does not mean "beating up" someone. Spray painting "stop the genocide in Gaza" is sometimes counted as an "antisemitic incidence" in Germany.
Lol what?
It is not even closely the same by any definition.
The IHRA's definition does, so you can't say "any".
That said, the IHRA definition was pretty specifically created to be zionist and a shield for Israel, and should be rejected on those grounds.
How about βany sane or rationalβ definition?
Fine, you are of course technically correct π
The definition used by German authorities subsumes ~~antizionism, i.e.~~ denying Israel's right to exist as a special form of antisemitism.
It is quite reductive to say anti-zionism is just denying the right of Israel to exist. Yes, the state of Israel is a deeply zionist project but you can accept the reality of this state existing and still be opposed to the idea of zionism in general.
I am opposed to the idea of colonialism in general but still accept the existence of states with a colonial history.
That's a good point. I've always thought antizionism and denying Israel's right to exist where somehow identical.
Ironic that this got you banned in c/Europe
Found the Israeli troll
I wonder what definition of antisemitism they use
Just to give an orientation: denying Israel's right to exist, i.e. antizionism, including the Slogan: 'From the river to the sea β Palestina shall be free', counts as antisemitism, while criticising the Israeli government for killing civilians does not. Cheering Hamas killing Israeli civilians counts as appreciation of terror and antisemitism.
Ok whoever the fuck came up with this definition is
a) an absolute moron, b) a supporter of fascist ideology and
c) against free speech
Yes, if you accept the definition of antisemitism preferred by the Israeli government, that's true.
It doesn't make it true in the real world.
As it should, this phrase and it's Israeli counterpart "between the sea and the Jordan there will be only Israeli sovereignty" are often accompanied by calls for mass deportation at best and genocide at worst.
These sentences are not bad on their own, but the parties from which they originate (Hamas and Likud) have transparent desires for war crimes and genocide.
I am unsure whether the Israeli counterpart is counted as incitement of popular hatred (Volksverhetzung) in Germany yet, specifically if it has been classified as such by a court.
It's not. Israel is an Apartheid state and can't exist as anything but an Apartheid state.
"Anti semitism" just means a Zionist doesn't like you