this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 184 points 2 months ago (11 children)

I hope they're using this time to learn lessons from their Starfield flop and gather the talent and budget needed to improve upon Skyrim. A modern engine probably wouldn't hurt.

However, my expectations are very low at this point.

[–] [email protected] 132 points 2 months ago (4 children)

They haven't learned from Oblivion, Skyrim, or Fallout 4. Probably others.

Or really, they learned they can just keep releasing games on a hacked-up Morrowind engine, and make huge piles of money. So that's what they'll keep doing.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 2 months ago

Yup. ES6 is going to sell like condoms on an STD themed swinger convension no matter how many bugs are going around.

And the saddest part is that too many have learned nothing about AAA titles, and will preorder the game, making the game a massive financial success even before releasing anything of quality.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago

Don't forget they learned they can charge for mods, too!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (4 children)

They haven’t learned from 3 of their best and most popular games?

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The budget for Starfield was twice that of Baldur's Gate 3. Throwing more money at it isn't going to do a lot if they're allocating it poorly.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not suggesting that a big budget alone is sufficient to make a good game.

However, enough budget to keep the team employed (note the many gaming industry layoffs lately) and appropriate budgeting (in terms of both money and time) affect things like code, art, and writing quality. It's kind of important.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think it's going to require the people making the most high-level decisions to come to the realization that their old way of doing things is outdated. I don't have faith that they'll come to those conclusions.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t have faith that they’ll come to those conclusions.

Sadly, I don't have much faith in them either. (Hence my low expectations.)

I can still hope, though. Elder Scrolls has enough fans and lore that there's certainly potential for a great new game.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

lore

Friendly reminder that the original "loremaster" of Elder Scrolls left Bethesda before they released Elder Scrolls Online, and they replaced him with someone who has apparently been making pretty questionable decisions with ESO lore.

I mean, they always have the out of dragon breaks rewriting reality/making multiple conflicting timelines simultaneously canon (see the events of daggerfall as referenced in later games) to handwave away retcons, but overusing that just means that no lore actually matters.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I think of it as a pool from which to draw and connect story elements, rather than rigid canon. If good writers were given the chance, I think they would find plenty of material to work with.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

at the end of the day they are going to make the game they want, whether we like it or not, microsoft is now involved as well so who knows how that is going to affect them with their decisions

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The real number is Morrowind had something like 10-20 writers that worked on it. Modern Bethesda games have 1.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Michael Kirkbride counts as 15 writers-in-one with enough cocaine.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

It's a good thing that he definitely didn't leave the company years ago then!

He released his Coda, he's washed his hands of the setting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Lol he's definitely worth it

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think I counted 6 quest designers in Starfield, which was a spot in the credits I was specifically looking for given how many quests they had and how many of them would have been better off not even existing. You can't talk about having 1000 planets and then make quests that aren't interesting to populate them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

There's a recent video that adds all of that up. Starfield had some crazy low number of quests, I think 50ish, and Morrowind had like 300+.

And of course Starfield has an astronomical number of devs on it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

There are more than 50 quests unless you're getting creative with how you count. There are over a dozen in each major faction, and those ones are mostly okay, but the ones I really take issue with are the nothing quests that aren't part of any faction; the ones that basically just have you go to a location and then report back. Those are awful. There should be zero quests in there that the quest designers themselves aren't excited about. Even the bounties that you pick up for a given faction that have you go to a place and kill an enemy mob should be more exciting than what I've already described in this sentence.

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[–] fartsparkles 2 points 2 months ago

Starfield has more quests than Skyrim (both somewhere around 200 or so quests). Morrowind definitely felt like it was twice as much as those.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's a tricky balancing act. They need to recover the investment as early as possible to pay less in capital costs but doing that will mean that later on when the product is sub-par it will cause problems and extra work.

Since the engine, game logic, art, story, testing is so heavily coupled together changing the engine a little bit could cause a month of work down the line.

I think personally the best way is to start by making an engine or taking one off the shelf and then write a mini version of the game with shit art that has a lot of bugs.

At the same time making models with hitboxes that all have the same physical properties otherwise, dialog content and recordings and all other content that can be done separately.

Once that is fun to play then you can start working creating a slightly bigger system with a single short storyline to have a cohesive experience and will have the genaral feel of the game.

Once everything above is done setting up a closed beta is the way to go. Take some feedback, add features and redo the small story to be more fun.

Then once everything is a fun experience but people just want more you do the whole everything.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

While you’ve made some valid points, keep in mind this isn’t a startup, it’s a massive studio

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

A modern engine probably wouldn't hurt.

If it does not have similar levels of moddability then it will absolutely hurt.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think it's safe to assume they know that and would bear it in mind when choosing or building an engine. Their games are famous for modding, after all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (12 children)

That's a years if not decade+ long project though, including major investments of time and money that you could pour into actual games. You can't just stomp a new game engine out of the ground, especially not with how complex video games in of itself have become, and if you want it to be as moddable as their current one.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Not if they simply use the latest Unreal Engine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That’s a years if not decade+ long project though

Yep.

You can’t just stomp a new game engine out of the ground

I don't know what you mean by that, but creating new game engines and migrating from one to another have both been done before.

Is either of those tasks fast or cheap? Of course not.
Are they worthwhile? Sometimes.
Are they possible? Absolutely.

especially not [...] if you want it to be as moddable as their current one.

Well, I can understand why you might assume that if you don't have a lot of experience in software development, but it's just not true. Making an engine that allows for very moddable games is mainly about planning for it during the design, and either building good tools for the game data or publishing the specs so other people can. It's not arcane magic.

(And for what it's worth, while Creation Engine is quite moddable, it has enormous room for improvement in that area. Actually working with it can be a very frustrating experience.)

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I think we're only ever see a new engine once Todd is no longer part of the company. Because the quote him out of context 'it just works'

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago

Thanks, I needed that laugh.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm replaying Starfield, and on my second playthrough, I'm noticing the depth they put into this game. Sometimes a single dialogue line you said days ago will have an effect on NPC attitudes through an entire side story. I'm not going to argue that it's not a regurgitation of their lame formula they've milked for the past 15+ years, but they do need to reevaluate where their money/dev time goes to.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Replaying as well, doing side quests I put off and surprised they actually go interesting places. Just did the one where zero G kept turning off and on at the space station that got taken over.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Damn, TIL you can come across these locations on accident just exploring. I thought that place was weird to be randomly floating out there with no real good loot. 😂

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I misread your comment and now seem foolish lol but that is hilarious, I think Bethesda needs some work on their world engine and random events. Saw a mod where people are making custom towns now and man would random encounters within that environment.....would take it to the next level.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Sshhh that isn't an approved opinion for Internet use

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The only thing Bethesda is motivated to do, frothing, absolutely chomping at the bit, is figure out a way to successfully monetize modded content.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Yes, will probably make a monthly subscription that walls off ability to download mods.

(Also, it's "champing" at the bit. Sorry for the correction but it's a small pet peeve seeing chomping so much now)

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