Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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It's an interesting read - a lot of her experiences she's discussing boil down to feeling she was ignored or her voice minimized because of her perceived gender identity and assumptions about how she was raised and what she would feel.
I liked her discussion and thought her perspective on purposely not transitioning was an interesting view. This was a really good analogy and drove home the point for me:
Some big quotes that hit home through this post were
Oof.
I don't know if it's just the sections of the internet I frequent these days, but this intense, misandrist views don't seem to be as common as they once were, and not as accepted.
Cis woman here. I run in pretty leftist circles and whilst I don't see open misandry as much anymore, I also don't see as many people speaking about men's issues as I'd like. If I do see people speaking about men or masculinity in a problematic way, it's usually people who are receptive to being challenged, once I've pointed things out.
I appreciate that you call people out on these things. My experience with pointing things out or seeing online conversations where someone else pointing it out has been very different. That's not to say what you're saying doesn't happen. It's probably just different based on where exactly on the internet we've been. Granted, leftist areas of the internet has this issue less, but it's not zero.
Like let's take a conversation about men that are virgins. The more comments there are, the more likely it is that at least one person will make fun of this category of men. And in the cases I've seen, any attempts to counter this is met with "Lol the virgin outed himself". Very rarely does an actual conversation happen (again, in the cases I've seen), because any arguments brought forward about why we shouldn't shame men for being virgins is shot down as invalid because the person bringing these arguments is a virgin. Or heck, he might not even be one, but the other person has already made up their mind on the virginity status of the commenter.
And the fact that it's present, albeit not as often, in leftist spaces as well is really harming and it can push people in the other direction. I'm in my 20s, a leftist man and a virgin, but I was fortunate enough to form my opinions on a lot of issues without encountering douchebags like Andrew Tate. But what about someone that's a teenager right now, doesn't have any opinions on political stuff yet, but sees the left that's fighting for no discrimination, making fun of virgins, which he is? He goes to see what the other side is saying, and boom, he's trapped in there now. Of course, the past couple sentences is my idea of what might go through this hypothetical guy's mind. So it's not that I think the left as a whole makes fun of virgins, but from where my example guy is standing, it could seem that way when a lot of people say those things and they go unchallenged.
Sorry for the long rant, but it's basically a really long way of saying: I'm glad you're calling this shit out and keep at it!