this post was submitted on 29 May 2024
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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 68 points 2 months ago (6 children)

She's wrong though, everything following the scientific method is science. The fact that you didn't pay out of your ass to publicize your research doesn't matter. Of course it reaches less people, but that's a separate issue.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

With all these "she" talk in this comment section, I was like when did LeCun change gender?

I don't even do anything remotely related to AI, but I know LeCun is a dude.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago

The scientific method includes peer reviewing.

You don't have to post it on a commercial database, only free one will do. But it needs to be accessible by the world.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Does it require independent peer review though? How do you achieve that ~~with~~ without publication? The predatory publication system is a different point.

Edit: fix without

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Wouldn't this imply that science didn't exist before academic publication existed? Was zero science conducted before the ~1600s then?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Well you're not entirely incorrect with that assumption. What we call science today is actually the Scientific Method Which is a much more skeptical approach to science than the earlier methods, hence the credibility. I like many others agree that the fees built into the system is quiet absurd and the process is not perfect, but currently that is the only legit way to get others evaluate your research.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

The word "legit" there is doing alot of work.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I ask with genuine curiosity, as I am not an academic and come from a software development mindset

Why is paid-for services the only "legit" way to get others to evaluate your research? Why is it not kosher to publicly publish your research, and simply invite peers to evaluate it? This idea is essentially the entire process behind Open Source Software, and is the backbone of most modern tools/programs/apps/software/linux development.

What does paying a publishing company provide you, as a researcher, that makes it worth it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I don't know what to tell you man, sometimes even I wonder if it's worth it at all. Publishing to a journal is such a difficult task. Before submitting your paper you need the approval of two other well-established individuals. Then you send in your paper to your selected journal and each one has some specific format and policies, which many are arbitrary and inthe end of the day depends on the person reviewing your paper. This can take weeks of back and forth.

However if you think you did something noteworthy, as far as I know, this is how you get it in front of the eyes of your peers. Even then there's a chance that your paper gets ignored lol.

So like many others in this thread, I'm not a fan of this process because even though it's strict, a lot of bs still passes through

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Fair point, I should specify "modern science". There's quite a gap of scientific quality between traditional medicine and modern science based medicine for example.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

No, peer reviewing can happen in many ways. But it needs to be public.

Sending letters also allows for peer reviewing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Was zero science conducted before the ~1600s then?

I mean, yes. The framework of studying things that we understand as science did not always exist.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Every time someone thinks science and studying natural phenomena are the same thing Newton sheds a single tear from his non-poked eye.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Possibly. I can't come up with any major results that wasn't either logic, engineering or tradition. But it's an interesting question. What might count as science before then?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

not as a discipline. If you publish an experiment to the extent it can be reproduced, it is science, so its happened before but in a less intentional fashion

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Before the 20th century most famous physicists referred to themselves as “natural philosophers,” not scientists. The P in PhD is for philosophy. The word “science” refers to a modern social phenomenon, a sort of peer-review methodology that generates shared public knowledge.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

everything following the scientific method is science

I'm fairly certain "report conclusions" is a pretty big deal in the scientific method. Principle of verifiability and all that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

True a lot of science is done in industry and the corporate world and not published to keep it a trade secret. It is still science but not shared.