289
Lawsuits test Tesla claim that drivers are solely responsible for crashes
(www.washingtonpost.com)
this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2024
289 points (99.3% liked)
Technology
59282 readers
3996 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I’m saying the technology leads to more harm than good in its current implementation. I don’t care it’s better than your Audi, it still sucks overall. “Used correctly” shouldn’t be a huge factor in a good design. It should be easy to use correctly and hard to use incorrectly. This is not the current state. It’s very easy to use incorrectly, as you admit, and the accidents demonstrate this.
In what way?
The vehicle prompts you to keep your hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment every time you enable FSD. Everyone using it incorrectly is doing so knowingly.
For the Tesla it’s very easy to use correctly.
Compared to our old cruise control it’s a much better system.
Nothing can stop people from being idiots. Most of the accidents are people being idiots.
I have seen a few where 100% it was a Tesla failure and Tesla should be held 100% accountable for those.
Not supported by the evidence, but sure, keep relying on your feelings and telling other people it’s their problem. Projection.
It’s clearly supported by the evidence. It’s cruise control. How complicated do you think cruise control is? You put your hands on the wheel and it maintains speed.
This is the stupidity I hate most about Tesla shills.
Great engineers make genius innovations all the time to keep idiots from harming themselves or others. Those innovations saturate our society and industries at all levels. Good engineering should be trying to do it more.
Tesla just doesn't care, or is even complicit in giving the idiots just enough freedom so people can think Tesla is ahead of the competition. The only difference from Tesla is that other car manufacturers don't give idiots that freedom.
This is why I hate most about people obsessed with Elon. They can’t have discussions. It’s all weird illogical wants over Elon.
No. When cruise control first came out. It’d drive you right into another car. Auto pilot is just a fancy cruise control.
You can take a normal car and drive it into a wall. Tesla is no different. Using your logic a normal car shouldn’t be able to do that.
When did I refer to Musk? You must be sensitive.
Yes, when cruise control came out over 100 years ago, there were very little controls. Responsible car makers have changes that. Some even recently aimed for zero fatalities for people using their cars and the associated technologies.
And there are many cars that keep you from driving into a wall. Maybe, at this point, you can't keep 100 percent of the idiots from doing something stupid, but responsible car makers do much, much better than Tesla, who actually promotes and markets the actions of idiots abusing the systems in their cars.
The responsible car makers showing drivers performing stunts well beyond the ability or legality of most drivers?
You've got some kind of chip on your shoulder man. It's a car company, who cares.
No they haven’t. I have take by brand new Audi and drive it straight into a well.
They assist people in driving. You are still driving the car.
Incorrect. Auto pilot is less likely to be in an accident.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-eight-times-less-likely-accident/amp/
You think giving me Tesla marketing BS, published by a proxy Tesla marketing rag, is going to convince me? If it is anything else like Tesla's marketing department, they just pulled something out of their ass, Musk saw the numbers and told them to fudge it some more, and then they put it up on their website dressed in fancy graphs and tech-speak. That's why you'll never find any actual data that third-party researchers can verify it with.
You have this article that looked at a four-month period. During that time, Tesla was responsible for every 10 of 11 deaths related to automated driving features. This report states that Tesla has the most accidents of any brand.
Tesla's create horrible driving habits in their customers. On the one hand, you have the CEO that creates a culture to disregard for safety and rules, praising users that openly go against the terms of use, as long as they show it doing something cool. On the other hand, you have a system that is just good enough to lull you into a sense of safety and confidence in the system itself. Then one day it decides to kill a motorcyclist, a kid getting off the bus, or a paramedic working on the side of the road. The driver that maybe praised Tesla to their friends and colleagues about how amazing it was is now dumbstruck because the car acted so unexpectedly.
Tesla is just as much as fault as the driver for that situation.
So why do you think Tesla's crash at a higher rate? I think it's a combination of instant acceleration, poor sensor-suite (like the lack of radar), and Tesla giving idiots free-reign to abuse the system as they please.
Maybe because it has nothing to do with Tesla. It’s a EV thing. Tesla just makes more EV than anyone else. It’s interesting to note when people switch to gas, they have more accidents.
The acceleration is a valid reason. Since Tesla has good controls to compensate for it. People don’t get how quickly they can get to an insane soeed
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/18/business/why-do-people-keep-crashing-teslas
They use the term "rate," which would account for absolute numbers. So just because Tesla sells more EVs wouldn't account for it.
It’s why Tesla is in the news. The same stats run similar for other EV but nobody cares.
The article explains it’s switch from gas to ev and ev to gas and not as much about Tesla
Where are you getting that number? The report just said Tesla had the highest accident rate of all brands.
From the article
Okay, so Tesla had the highest rate, but switching power train types seems problematic. It didn't really say if other EVs are close to Tesla's accident rates, or am I missing something?
I have not found an article that breaks down other EV since there are few of them and lumped in with brand as a whole.
https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/new-report-finds-tesla-drivers-are-the-most-accident-prone
You’ll see ram and Subaru are comparable to tesla
In any case, I think we can dispel the myth that Tesla is one of the safest cars. They have the worst accident rates among all brands and their driving assist features either can't keep idiots from making bad decisions or, worse, even amplify the dangerous effects that idiots create while driving.
You need the study to clarify that. Oddly the first article says accidents but when you see how it’s defined, tickets such as spending are called an accident
They give 2 statistics, accidents and incidents. Accidents are crashes, incidents are crashes plus tickets.
Tesla has most accidents per driver. Ram has the most incidents - the report you mention. Tesla has the second most incidents.
So, Teslas still top the number is accidents. Agree, we would need a study to figure out if Tesla driving assist suite is either incompetent at driver safety or malignant to driver safety. Perhaps this lawsuit will shed some light on it.
The driver assist is pretty damn good. It’s so good many people trust it to much. They’ll read email. Crawl in the back seat. You can go to Amazon and buy things to make it seems like your hands are on the wheel. Now the article did say EV are more likely to be read ended. I do wonder if that’s because of the phantom breaking.
That's the malignant part I mentioned. They trust it too much and end up running into a first responder, motorcycle or kid getting off a school bus. The aviation industry and many other industries have extensive knowledge how to avoid this very problem. Most other car companies implement systems to avoid it. Tesla just doesn't really care that much.
My thoughts were also about phantom breaking, but I don't know if it is still an issue.
By the way, I'm not downvoting you here.
I haven’t had an issue with it for over a year but according to others it’s still a real issue. The car will just slam on the breaks for some odd reason. I don’t want to say no reason because the car thinks there is a valid reason but there isn’t. I’m more likely to have the issue on a sunny day, by a bridge when I’m the only car in front of me.
Since I’m a conservative, I have many fans who follow me around and downvote anything I say. It’s sad they think that gives them power over me or that I care.
As long as someone is having a discussion. They’ll never get a downvote from me.
Dude, I was literally in another thread where someone posted a video talking about how many deaths FSD caused (17) and extrapolating those numbers by how many FSD miles were driven lead to fsd being 11x more dangerous than a humans driver.
It had all sorts of upvotes.
Except, those accidents were on AP which has multiple billions of miles driven, not FSD. The NHSTA has only said there was 1 fsd related death. Related, as in, not confirmed to be the cause of.
They don't even know what they're mad about. And i get downvoted for showing the major flaw in their post.
I bet they've never used, or had to acknowledge the warnings prior to using AP. Let alone the even more dire warning FSD gives (or gave prior to v12 anyway, not sure what today's warnings are)
Here, you will see ford is under investigation for its system
https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/29/ford-bluecruise-investigation-nhtsa-fatal-crashes/#:~:text=Federal%20safety%20regulators%20have%20opened%20an%20into%20Ford%E2%80%99s,has%20confirmed%20BlueCruise%20was%20active%20in%20both%20crashes.
People confuse auto pilot with full self driving. They are very different. AP is just assisted cruise control. I’ve had very few issues with it. Compared to my Audi, I love the Tesla AP.
Fsd is another beast. I have not tried 12 yet