this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023

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Hamas, federation and legality (lemm.ee)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

22 comments fedilink hide all child comments

So, I've noticed a few posts making it to "all" from some some communities that are, shall we say, unsympathetic to the Israelis readarding the attacks over the weekend.

I don't want to get into a row about the situation itself as you can have one of them anywhere online right now.

However, some of it slips into being supportive and almost enthusiastic about Hamas actions.

In quite a few countries, Hamas are a legally proscribed terrorist organisation, and support of them is specifically illegal. Therefore I'm wondering if there is any risk hosting federated content from these instances if you happen to live in said country and host a Lemmy instance. Lemm.ee for example being based in the EU where they are deemed as terrorists.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

Don't worry, I just checked with the Internet Police and it's fine

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There seems to be illegality all around --

"Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms" (United Nations press release, 2016) https://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

As I said, I'm not here to have a row about the morals of the situation, you can take that to a million other places right now. I'm asking about the risk to instances of material that's illegal in the host nation being spread to them by federation.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Interesting question.

Would you mind stating your personal political bias if you have one in regard to this conversation?

I'm only asking because there have been instances where people have tried to limit freedom of speech citing political risk or 'extremism' on lemm.ee, so I'm offering you an opportunity to get it all out here.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

No, I specifically said that's not what this is about. I was interested in the legal ramifications as it pertains to federated networks and hosting. It's an apoltical query. If you want a row, look elsewhere.

[+] CookieJarObserver -10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nazi posting is on the daily schedule for the commies here.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

While some of the comments from commies are too far, just because you disagree with how Israel treats Palestinians doesn't make you a Nazi.

You can approach this situation with more nuance than a choice between "Jews bad" or "Muslims bad".

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I'll add that this conflict is not a religious conflict. Religion adds some heat but it is fundamentally about settler colonialism, theft of land, racism and apartheid.

The former Palestinian leader Arafat's wife is literally a Palestinian Christian. And Hamas, an Islamist organisation was literally funded by the Mossad against the PLO (Arafat's organisation). What Israel faced is literally their own fault - it's blowback like how the US got 911ed by the Saudis they funded.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fair point, I oversimplified a bit. Sounds a bit more of a nationalism issue?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Land is what's at stake, when people are removed from their land or displaced, that constitutes genocide, keeping them under a seperate set of law while favouring Jews: apartheid (literally worse than South Africa, because the whites actually needed low wage workers while Israelis just carry on killing).

All of that comes under settler-colonialism, but certainly nationalism is part of the agenda.

[+] CookieJarObserver -11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Most of the anti Israel bs is basically just "jews bad" and therefore nazi. Also celebrating terrorism among other things.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Much unlike the Israeli defense ministers statement of "palestinians beasts are subhumans" which definitely doesn't sound like Nazi propaganda oh wait

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

They even put the Palestinians in ghettos. Wonder what that harks back to?

[–] zaph 4 points 1 year ago

The problem is that Isreal is doing terrorist shit too and it has nothing to do with the fact that they're Jewish.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Again, you're painting with a broad brush. Nazism and antisemitism are frequently associated but mutually exclusive.

And one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, nationalism and anti-communism are also pillars of nazism. Wait...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

All I'm asking for is a bit of nuance beyond "communists are saying nazi things". Being similar is not being the same. You're implying that Palestinians are Nazis, which is... a tremendous stretch.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Also just wrong, since both Jewish Zionists and Nazis were inspired by European colonialism. (Important to note there are Christian Zionists out there, and the original British Upper Class Christian Zionists basically just wanted the Jews out of Europe).

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

"Communists are saying Nazi things"? I'm not sure where I talked about communists besides the opposition to it in Hamas.

And no, I'm not implying Palestinians are Nazis - I'm responding to the claim that Hamas isn't fascist just because there's more to fascism than antisemitism. Yes, antisemitism does not imply fascism. But antisemitism combined with a few other factors does imply fascism. (And no, fascism does not imply antisemitism).

And it's certainly not a stretch to claim a subset of a group is fascist. Like this Palestinian on the left (who is also instrumentalized by Israeli fascists to claim all Palestinians are Nazis - which is obviously wrong, but this guy certainly was one):

Also, just a small definition: I use the terms Nazi and fascist interchangeably, there's not much of a point here to argue semantics.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yeah, that's why Mossad funded them. If they were Islamist, they'd be easier to control like the Saudis and friends. The PLO were left secularist and led by a man married to a Christian Palestinian.

By the way Israel is more viciously nationalist, fascist and anti-communist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never said anything positive about Israel, did I? I responded to a comment saying just because Hamas is antisemitic doesn't mean it's fascist. While that's true, Hamas fulfills more hallmarks of fascism than merely antisemitism.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Well, I wasn't criticising you personally. I was adding some important, interesting and peculiar context.

Don't you find it wierd that Israelis were more interested in weakening a disciplined left secular party and inviting corrupt terrorists to power instead? I mean obviously, if Palestine ever were to be free, the business class don't want them to be left secular nor independant.

Personally I don't think Hamas should be compared to fascists, the term obscures the unique problems in the Middle East between different factions, who fall in and out of favour with the chief meddler in the region (US). But it doesn't really matter.