Star Trek Social Club

This was a fantastic episode. One thing I liked in particular was that they had an actual lawyer defend Una, and not just have Pike do it.

What a beautiful episode. The message was great and it wasn't ambiguous enough for people to really misinterpret or miss it while still remaining an indirect allegory for current times. The allegory was clearly about either homosexuality or undocumented immigrants and I appreciate that people from either group can likely relate to this episode. As a gay guy I have to say I definitely did.

Also, the scene with Spock's "outburst" was hilarious and I loved seeing the (on the surface) emotionless Spock once again.

Overall I loved the episode and I'm very glad to see one I love after personally disliking the previous one.

I really enjoyed it. Star Trek is at its strongest when it gives itself time to mull over philosophical, ethical, and social issues. This episode really knocked it out of the park. Just really well-written overall.

Honestly, the trial episodes of Star Trek tend to be the some of the best. Drama without explosions are when it's different from most other sci-fi franchises, and it's good to see it come back. SNW really is the best current Trek show.

Loved it. Star Trek has always been handwavy with legal rules in favour of a compelling debate and this was no exception.

As a Canadian, I instantly started thinking about the metaphor in terms of laws the Canadian government had against indigenous people practicing or teaching their cultural practices.

On the other hand, as a gay man, I was thinking about when homosexuality was considered a criminal practice and how sometimes gay men will stay in the closet to avoid discrimination.

One of the things that’s most interesting to me is how many minorities groups Una’s experience maps to in some rhyming way.

In my opinion that might have been the perfect Star Trek episode. Well written, relevant to what we face in modern day society, and a celebration of the crew of the Enterprise as well as the world as we wish it to be. A civil rights trial for the 21st (and 23rd century). I needed to see this today.

“I regret that you had to witness that outburst.”

Best line in the show!

I really like the look fo the dress uniforms. Surprised that they never got Pike to the stand, especially after Una confessing that she told Pike 4 months ago.

Now that the cast has been reset, I'm ready for them to explore some strange new worlds.

This was an absolute gem. I don't have much of substance to add just now (except that those dress uniforms are very nice), but after being on the whole disappointed by the season opener I am extremely pleased with this episode. Definitely one of the strongest in the show so far, which is no small feat.

This really was classic trek, Star Trek as Star Trek should be.
Don't have much to add, but I really loved the episode

Superb episode, a real high mark. The 1st episode was so disappointing I was worried they'd gone of the rails with the nonsense kung fu segment in the middle, but Ad Astra Per Aspera was a perfect episode.

The writing was great, and the pace and rhythm perfect with highs and lows, good use of emotions and a perfect ending. I love these character driven episodes - we learnt more about Una, and also La'an in effective way, but also about the context and imperfections of the Federation. The cast is also great, making the close family like dynamics of the Enterprise command staff feel real.

I'm glad they also didn't put Pike on the stand. It allowed Una and Neera to shine, and Neera (Yetide Badaki) who was a superbly crafted and acted character - she ran the gauntlet of dislikeable to a most loved character in one episode.

This episode had me crying, it was so beautiful and strong. Especially the part where La'an is told that she isn't a monster. The thing is while yes this is a fictional case, as someone that is trans irl, it hits home strong..

It's been a good while since we had a good old fashioned courtroom episode. Given how high the bar had been set in the past, well done to everyone involved that they managed to comfortably clear it.

Measure of a woman

An excellent episode which is virtually certain to displace "Measure" as Trek's most venerated hour of space court.

One thing that always strikes me about SNW—even the middling episodes—is just how vivid, bright, and beautiful this show is. Grimdark has its moments, but this visual style is a much better and more natural fit for Star Trek.

I think this episode was really good...if the issue of discrimination was over literally anything other than a social practice of genetic modification. Star Trek's hardline stance on linking social genetic modification to eugenics is one of the things that I've really appreciated, especially as corrosive "thought experiments" about it have sort of entered back into the discourse. I don't think you can practice genetic manipulation on a society wide level without it going very bad very fast. At least I don't think humans can, and the episode doesn't really make a case for why the Illyrians are better at it.

The core message of this episode is so important, especially at this current moment, and the right of people to self determination and to safety and security in their identities and differences is right at the heart of Star Trek, so I'm glad to see SNW continue to affirm it. But...just...there are reasons, real reasons, with lots of horrific history behind them, for why normalizing genetic manipulation in the name of improving or "fixing" populations of people is still a real third rail for me, and I wish the episode had figured out how to engage with that specifically a bit more. This episode does not actually convince me that in the far future utopia of the Federation the dangers of genetic modification as a practice have been addressed, and in absence of that "It used to happen and its bad, but stuff is better now and can't we relax a little" is a bit...hollow

I think you could fix this for me if you made it so that Illyrian genetic modification was something that members of their species voluntarily entered into in adolescence or early adulthood. Make it more of a practice that people voluntarily keep up and less of a program that their society runs and the whole thing works way better for me. That also makes the loose analogy to transgender people in our current time, and really just the right of bodily autonomy and self determination, way more coherent.

Ad Astra Per Aspera

A beautiful title, I remember watching the anime Ad Astra a few years back. They had a ROUGH time.

Through hardships, to the stars.

You had your playtime, acting like one of them. Accept your dismissal, take your licks and go home.

Una: No. (Why not?) Because I shouldn't have to hide anymore. None of us should. I know I should have done better. I didn't stand up when I should have. I'm standing up now.

YES! GIVE ME THAT STRENGTH!

So it was either dishonorable discharge OR Dishonorable discharge with 20 years in a penal colony.

That's a rough decision.

GIVE EM HELL UNA!

So La'An has an idea that the evidence against Una might have been illegally obtained. This is going to be a really in depth court drama from Star Trek!

La'An: We need to find out who turned her in. It might well be the only way to save her.

But Uhura strictly refuses La'An's illegal order. :|

Counselor: Admiral, it would seem that the rules of Starfleet only apply when a captain deems that they do. (Robert April: Is there a question Counsellor?)

You have shown that you have been repeatedly willing to break the very first order of starfleet and you are hailed a hero. you can break the law if you so choose. So, hiding behind order and protocol to explain why you would not have admitted Una Chin-Riley to Starfleet is a sanctimonious falsehood, is it not?

And of course the JAG gets pissed off at that type of reasoning, how convenient.

Counsellor: My client did not ask to be genetically modified. It is an Illyrian cultural practice done to children before they are even born. It is done for survival and yet she has been arrested because of a violation of a law. But the Admiral has just shown us that Starfleet regulations are are flimsy and subjective at best.

Spock's line about what una was hiding OMG!!!

Spock: Yes, I did get the feeling that she was hiding something.

Neera: What was she hiding?

Spock: An affanity for Gibert and Sullivan musicals.

A BRITISH TAR IS A SOARING SOUL AS FREE AS A MOUNTAIN BIRD HIS ENERGETIC FIST SHOULD BE READY TO RESIST A DICTACTORIAL WORD

Spock: Perhaps. Although I think it is illogical for Starfleet to punish itself.

Neera: I'm afraid I don't understand.

Spock: The loss of Una would be destructive to Starfleet as an organization. She is an extraordinary officer.

Una: She is a Mentor Spock: I have learned a great deal about leadership by serving under her.

M'benga: She puts the lives of her crew above her own. Always.

Spock: She is a friend.

La'An: Family. Una is Family.

And we get more into exactly That.

Counselor: Could it be that you carry your family's augmentations, and you believe that because of them you may become dangerous?

Una: Yes, I do.

OH MY GOOOOOOD...

Counselor: There is nothing wrong with you Lieutenant, no hidden monster inside. But I do know how they make us feel. They look down at us for so long that we begin to look down at ourselves. Genetics is not our destiny despite what you may have been taught. The fear of yourself it's not your own. It was drilled into you. You're not born a monster. You were just born with a capacity for actions, good or ill. Just like the rest of us... i guarantee you are not the the person who leaked Una's true identity to Starfleet.

"Ad Astra per aspera"

To the stars through hardship.

.......

Una: My family, we went to the non-illyrian city. You see, some of us could pass. We could blend in, so we did. We left everyone else behind. Our families. Our friends.. We left them all. I regret it to this day.

...

I wanted my crew to know who me for who I really was. I thought maybe if they did, I would finally be safe. And starfleet would finally understand Illyrian's better.

So it was four months in between Ghosts of Illyria and last season's finale.

Neera: She believed in the best of Starfleet, and that through it she could find salvation from the hardship and danger of her everyday life. Danger she faced just for being born an Illyrian. Dangers born on prejudice. Spurred on by laws against people like her. But through her hardhsips, Una saw the stars. Una joined Starfleet because she believed it was the only thing that could save her life. She fled persecution, and within Starfleet she sought safettu. She Asked for Asylum and Captain Pike granted it.

What an amazing courtroom episode! Did a lot of work for equality in the current moment.

I was recalling a lot of the classic courtroom episodes too, The Menagerie, Drumhead, Measure of a Man. This is top tier stuff.

I also feel relevant to our current controversies.

I always thought the genetic modification ban was pretty flimsy. It wasn't even established until DS9 since TNG had the Darwin Research Station.

I really don't like how strict they made it in SNW. Why should humans dictate the laws for all races in the Federation? What happened to the Denobulans? Phlox said that they genetically modify themselves.

DS9 said that genetic modification was still allowed for the treatment of serious illnesses. So it doesn't make sense for all permanent genetic modification to be banned.

Also, in DS9, genetic modification was more like performance enhancing drugs. Bashir's modifications gave him an unfair advantage over other people. It's kind of like someone cheating to get into a good school. But that argument also has problems since there are aliens with naturally superior abilities compared to humans. Vulcans have perfect memory, superior physical abilities, and telepathy, they would have a big advantage over humans in a lot of things. But Vulcans aren't banned from Starfleet.

That was a beauty! I love this crew! Seeing them all back Una up made me quite emotional. I'm a soppy git.

Is it me or is SNW the best looking trek ever? Everything just looks so cool. I bloody love it.

I loved it. I do not understand the joke about Spock "outburst", was there something in that body language that I am missing? And was this a joke inspired by Lower Decks ?

One of the things I really liked about it is that there was no explosive denouement (apart from PIke's hug), and Una and Neera didn't automagically become BFFs again at the end. 25 years is a longass time. Even excluding ideological positions, they're strangers now. They probably won't send each other birthday cards. They won't send each other memes on Whatsapp. They won't invite each other to weddings and shit.

And that's okay. Or maybe I'm just projecting. Sometimes I see friends I haven't spoken to in 10+ years on social media, and I think damn back then we couldn't let a day pass without at least a text. But whatever the reason for falling out of touch, I would say I'd be glad if they're thriving and hope things get better for them if they're not. But no interest in rekindling the friendship or initiating contact. And that's okay.

This episode restored my faith in the series. It one of the best single episodes of Trek to have blessed my eyes.

For an episode whose argument hinged on genetic engineering being a cultural practice for the Ilyrians it is strange they never actually had anybody testify as to what significance it has in Ilyrian culture. Or how it is done and why.

If the genetic engineering is done to adapt to their inhospitable atmosphere why are they doing it to every child? They could just edit the germline once and be done with it.

Altogether it felt like the writers just got very attached to the idea of genetically modified individuals as a metaphor for real world marginalized groups that they lost track both of the in-universe practicalities of the metaphor and the real world implications for the metaphor. This was just outright sympathetic to eugenicists, an ideology that has led to the deaths of millions of marginalized people.

Minor nitpick in an otherwise really good episode, but it was weird how they put in flashbacks of Una's testimony when Neera was reading the asylum law. That scene had literally just happened, did they make this episode expecting people to be on their phones half paying attention because there aren't any explosions or something?

My DaystromInstitute annotations are up at: https://startrek.website/post/90038 (spoilers, naturally).

Hm... I suppose I might get downvoted, but I thought that the episode was just okay. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek episodes that aren't action-oriented and have actual good drama, but we have done courtroom dramas already multiple times. TNG had it with Measure of a Man, which was superb at the time. Battlestar Galactica had that one space court drama that was well executed too. While this episode was maybe emotional and had the allegory on modern society, I thought the episodes borrowed too heavily from so many courtroom drama clichés (objections/"you may proceed, but treat carefully", making someone who would otherwise be on your side be the prosecution, having the defendant lawyer make their own client look bad at the beginning, making prosecution read off a law in front of the court).