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GermanK20 at 2024-03-24 17:14:49+00:00 ID: kwd162f
Country is kinda suckadelic if you don't have children, most of the money goes there one way or another, including the famous "pay you to study" part. But how did you end up on full tax, don't they run that "reduced tax for workers in need" scheme?
Gekkoster at 2024-03-24 17:17:19+00:00 ID: kwd3uvu
That is simply not true.
Healthcare and the elderly costs way more than "children"
MrStrange15 at 2024-03-24 17:24:16+00:00 ID: kwdot2x
Dont get me wrong. This is a dream of a country, but for someone who is not a citzen and intend to go back home one day, life is a little bit difficult...
From one ~~expat~~ immigrant to another. This is how it is in every country with a pension scheme and universal healthcare. Even if you don't intent to use the system, you will have to pay. I have the same deal in the Netherlands.
Nervous-Ant-Boss at 2024-03-24 17:00:57+00:00 ID: kwd14w2
Could you elaborate on what makes Denmark a dream of a country? Is it the social stability, low crime rates, less homeless people or something else the taxfunded welfare causes?
Lots of singles and middle class save a lot of money. If you are not able to save up with a pay limit visa income, perhaps look into financial advice, you must be over spending on something very much in the nice to have and not need to have category.
Anarchist_BlackSheep at 2024-03-24 16:53:31+00:00 ID: kwcyi0a
Only 20% for rent? Damn I wish.
SadBoy-86 (OP) at 2024-03-24 16:50:57+00:00 ID: kwczebe
20% of the gross salary. If we are talking about net it jumps to a way bigger figure.
OMGTheyKilledKenny at 2024-03-24 17:00:22+00:00 ID: kwd0zs2
That’s still absurdly cheap in Copenhagen.
Crazy_Recover_9649 at 2024-03-24 17:08:49+00:00 ID: kwd39tf
47% income tax? How much is your salary?
SadBoy-86 (OP) at 2024-03-24 17:33:08+00:00 ID: kwd6k60
It is the wonderland I have though, but its a very expensive wonderland that does not distribute its gifts equally. Some receive less other mores. The point is that I expected a fair en equal society and the State seens to take from me way more than it offers.
I have a house in my homeland and I have to pay taxes of it to denmark despite living in a rented property. Thats pretty unfair.
proevligeathoerher at 2024-03-24 17:45:51+00:00 ID: kwd8r9f
No one ever said things are, nor have to be, distrubuted equally. If your needs are higher, you receive more - that's true equality. We aren't a milimeter democracy, we are a social demotratic society. It's not our fault that you didn't bother actually looking into what that means, before you move dhere.
Peter34cph at 2024-03-24 19:59:51+00:00 ID: kwdvc62
Oh yeah, that's right, people who are permanently unable to work due to disability or chronic illness are consistently fast-tracked into disability pensions in mere months. Everyone's needa are taken good care of, especially the weakest and most vulnerable.
Anderopolis at 2024-03-24 20:08:01+00:00 ID: kwe58he
The idea that only those not in need of public services deserve them is why so many societies, including your homeland, have such massive inequality and low social mobility.
Here those better off support those that are not.
Also, you really need to hire a lawyer to look over your taxes, in this thread alone I have noticed several basic, fundamental misunderstandments on your part.
InvertReverse at 2024-03-24 20:59:10+00:00 ID: kwemvi6
It's a core part of the Danish system to help those that need it the most. If you want a more individualistic society, there are better countries for you.
de_matkalainen at 2024-03-24 16:45:39+00:00 ID: kwd13f7
The taxes are high but so are salaries. If you are taxed 47% + the labor tax of 8% that means you're gonna make a lot of money. 20% of salary on rent is also very reasonable, especially in Copenhagen. Most people I know at least spend 30%. If you want to live cheap, just move out of the city. I live far away from the city and just take the train everyday. It's a choice.
I'm not sure what it has to do with anything that you won't use a lot of social services. The entire reason that it works is because most people don't take more than they give. Also, you could get unlucky and need treatment or you could get someone pregnant/become pregnant. You never know.
Anderopolis at 2024-03-24 16:51:24+00:00 ID: kwczh5u
What is your problem? You didn't do the most basic research on the tax system before moving here?
If you want to skimp out on supporting society go work in Dubai.
Dont get me wrong. This is a dream of a country,
Yeah, that is funded by taxes and people sharing responsibility for our society.
Danes have some of the highest private saving rates of the world, it is very simple actually have a higher income than expenditure.
AlwaysMissbehave at 2024-03-24 17:15:16+00:00 ID: kwd3idf
This 🤘🇩🇰
yesmannyr at 2024-03-24 17:01:12+00:00 ID: kwd2ewp
I mean, that’s how we’ve democratically decided to structure our society. Great that you wish to come and work here like many other expats. If you don’t enjoy the system and laws incl. taxation then I guess there’s other work opportunities out there?
Personally - working at a C20 in a high pay position - I struggle to see it being more attractive going to other countries as an expat. Pay is often much lower offsetting the lower taxation and overall I prefer the high social security and safety in Denmark. Maybe Norway and Switzerland would be only ones directly competitive, but neither countries are more attractive than Copenhagen to me.
So, don’t understand what’s different than your position to me as a single Dane? Same income, same tax, same mobility opportunities. Yet, most Danes decide to stay because the prefer this system.
SadBoy-86 (OP) at 2024-03-24 17:28:34+00:00 ID: kwd5s6f
Fair enough. This is the sort of adaptation and change if mindset that I have to pass through it. To think in the collective and not on myself. Im used to a more individualistic society.
memamimohaha at 2024-03-24 18:25:20+00:00 ID: kwdfhgv
The rest of us have just given up. You have to accept that you’re the milk cow for large parts of society that do not cover their own costs - students, unemployed, families with children, those using the health care system a lot, the elderly etc.
As a single, full time worker without kids you’d live a financially very comfortable life in most parts of the world. Not in Denmark though, and as you can see from the responses most people are oddly proud of it.
Green-Chemistry at 2024-03-24 18:46:12+00:00 ID: kwdizza
Oh fuck off with that bullshit. You can live a perfectly good and comfortable life as a childless single in Denmark.
memamimohaha at 2024-03-24 18:58:14+00:00 ID: kwdl0x6
Of course, but obviously significantly less well-off and financially comfortable than in most other countries where income taxes are much lower.
It is not a political opinion just a fact. Things change when you start using the public services, for instance when you have kids (hence the significant interest from Londoners/UK in moving to Denmark due to lower child care costs) or as a student.
unginvester at 2024-03-24 19:06:27+00:00 ID: kwdme5d
Lol we need children so some ppl can Pay for when u get old. Getting children isnt a profit game for a family where a single person get to save all the expens on children. I have My own apartment 15 min from copenhagen. Have a car. And dont really need anything. With an average income. Do u expect working 25 hours a week and weekly vacation as single?
imSpejderMan at 2024-03-24 19:58:23+00:00 ID: kwdv3ag
Granted I’m only in my mid twenties, but I don’t wish to have any kids. I’m living a very comfortable life on my own. My parents had next to nothing while I was growing up, yet I was still able to enjoy summer vacations, school, after school activities and such for free (or at least at a heavily discounted rate). I wouldn’t have been able to do so in many other countries. I happily pay my tax. Some kid out there with less fortunate parents is making great use of it. Quit complaining we should take care of each other instead of leaving everything up to a dice roll of whether you have wealthy parents or not. Are you against that mentality then Denmark just probably isn’t for you 🤷🏼♂️
StalinsLeftTesticle_ at 2024-03-24 20:50:59+00:00 ID: kwe3vll
Mate have you considered that the vast, vast majority of "single full time workers" have been or will be a member of one of those groups you mentioned at some point in their lives? You might be a single full time workers now, but you were probably a student at some point, you will probably be unemployed at some point, you will most likely have a family at some point, and you will (hopefully) become elderly one day as well. We maintain a good social safety net not just for "the others", but for ourselves, as well. I pay my taxes happily because I know that any day, I could stand in the situation as well where I need it, even though I pay topskat and (luckily) don't need to use the social safety net all that often (except for the occasional visit to the doctor).
memamimohaha at 2024-03-24 20:52:56+00:00 ID: kwe47cx
Yes, you are totally right. For most Danes it may work, for expats not so much because they will not be here for studies, kids, retirement.
StalinsLeftTesticle_ at 2024-03-24 20:54:11+00:00 ID: kwe4em1
You never know. I used to be an "expat" (fuck I hate that word) as well, now I'm a regular ass Danish citizen. It wasn't the plan, but life throws you curveballs.
memamimohaha at 2024-03-24 21:04:41+00:00 ID: kwe65a0
What is wrong with ‘expat’? Is it the ‘just an immigrant’ yada yada? I think it’s a useful and meaningful differentiation.
Welcome as a Dane though! Hope you succeed in befriending at least some of us:)
haxfar at 2024-03-25 12:53:09+00:00 ID: kwh98i5
Iirc the difference between expat and immigrant, is that immigrant intend to stay in the country permanently, whereas the expat intend to at some point, return to their country.
Rosbj at 2024-03-24 20:10:18+00:00 ID: kwdx37x
most people are oddly proud of it.
Damn right - and one does not need to travel very far from here, to see your mentality thriving and the surrounding society crumbling.
memamimohaha at 2024-03-24 20:48:07+00:00 ID: kwe3el3
Oh yeah, the rest of the world is crumbling. Right.
Sometimes r/Denmark is the Danish equivalent of USA! USA! USA! Narrow minded at best, but often just ignorant and nationalist.
Rosbj at 2024-03-24 21:37:26+00:00 ID: kwebkuz
And your purposeful misreading is as Ayn Rand as it comes.
memamimohaha at 2024-03-24 21:44:20+00:00 ID: kwecpri
What? You literally write that. Otherwise please be specific, which countries in Europe (“does not need to travel very far…”) are you thinking about?
Qaanaaq at 2024-03-24 17:13:53+00:00 ID: kwd3fhl
Well it sounds like all you need to buy is food and entertaintment. And perhaps find a cheaper place to live if you want to safe money. For danes the pension is the saved money rest is for living.
SadBoy-86 (OP) at 2024-03-24 17:35:01+00:00 ID: kwd6vt3
I got your point. Sadly I have to save for my own retirement since Im a expat and I intend to go back to my own country. But who knows what would happen in the future ? The game changes a lot If I decide to stay here.
proevligeathoerher at 2024-03-24 17:14:49+00:00 ID: kwd6y8j
So what if you won't use the social services? Will you be using our roads? Our public transport? Our sidewalks? Our police, fire deparment, emergency rooms if needed? Or will you just suffer in silence? Will you be going to museums? Tivoli? Cultural events? Libraries? Churches? Will you be using electricity? Will you be eating meat? Or vegetables? Dairy products?
All of these things are either partially or completely paid for by taxes. If you feel like you should not be paying taxes, then I hope you also agree that you shouldn't use any of these things ever.
uidentificeret at 2024-03-25 08:58:13+00:00 ID: kwgluwz
He simply wants to pay less, but of course you were fully aware of that even as you were constructing your strawman.
proevligeathoerher at 2024-03-25 09:05:28+00:00 ID: kwgmela
If he wants to pay less, he shouldn't have chosen to move to a country where the taxes are as they are.
Also, according to him, he deserves to pay less because he won't use any of the things our taxes support. I'm simply pointing out to him, that claiming that is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding of what the taxes actually pay for.
He decided to move to a country with high taxes. And he now has the choice of either dealing with it or leaving. Our country is not build to serve the needs and wants of expats above citizens, as much as many of them believe it should be.
Setorica at 2024-03-24 17:13:53+00:00 ID: kwdhpbl
I would suggest you look into this
https://skat.dk/en-us/businesses/employees-and-pay/non-danish-labour/tax-scheme-for-researchers
Green-Jello-2449 at 2024-03-24 18:13:48+00:00 ID: kwddu2z
What a shitty attitude. You are free to leave anytime
Vast_Category_7314 at 2024-03-24 17:35:25+00:00 ID: kwddjdz
What do you mean you don’t use public healthcare, are you planning to go back to your birth country if you get any kind of illness?
If not that’s a bullshit comment, your covered by public healthcare so off course it’s fair that you pay taxes for covering it.
If you pay 47% taxes your pay is definitely High enough to be able to rack up substantiel savings..
Peter34cph at 2024-03-24 19:56:15+00:00 ID: kwduqgw
I'm sure he's willing to solemnly swear not to drive on the roads, and to not involve the police if he becomes the victim of a crime.
Ulle82 at 2024-03-24 18:15:34+00:00 ID: kwd5ubd
There is no way you are paying close to 47% net tax (unless you make an absurdly high salary, in which case saving should be easy). We have many deductions here. Also, there is zero tax on pensions, so unless you are taking it all out and taxing it as income and putting on a §53a scheme, it's simply false that you're paying 50%.
It also makes no sense comparing how much rent is in terms of gross salary. We have one of three more complex tax systems in the world, so net is what you measure against.
If you want some insight, share a pay slip and a budget.
SadBoy-86 (OP) at 2024-03-24 17:37:59+00:00 ID: kwd7ebd
I arrived here in the pay limit visa scheme. So I suppose that my salary is above the average.
Ulle82 at 2024-03-24 17:42:44+00:00 ID: kwd87ym
That says nothing about your situation.
That visa scheme has a minimum, no maximum. I'm very familiar with it as my wife is on it. She makes about a million kroner a year and her net tax comes out to about 40%.
My point is, you are leaving out all information related to you, in a country which has a complicated tax scheme...
Did you get your first salary yet?
Cunn1ng-Stuntz at 2024-03-24 17:28:55+00:00 ID: kwdsh20
Yeah, wouldn't it be great if people could just work in another country, and not pay taxes. How, I wonder, could that be a problem.
Ffs.
JoeThePoolGuy123 at 2024-03-24 17:13:53+00:00 ID: kwe5qpn
If you're paying 47% income tax you're getting paid around 1.5 million a year (based on calculating backwards from tax brackets and the 47%). This is in the top 5%-1% of income in Denmark (source).
So I really don't understand what your issue is. You're paying around 14k to rent your apartment, and I can assure you that this is not the norm for people living on their own in Copenhagen.
DevilGeorgeColdbane at 2024-03-24 17:24:16+00:00 ID: kweiz5e
This is a dream of a country, but for someone who is not a citzen and intend to go back home one day, life is a little bit difficult...
Wow, you were so close to getting it.
The system only works if everyone contributes a fair amount. Otherwise, just move to the UAE or something.
Derek-Dick at 2024-03-24 18:38:32+00:00 ID: kwg7736
Pretty sure those numbers doesn't add up. Minimum salary on that visa is 487.000 kroner.
That's 40.583 kroner a month. HvorMegtEfterSkat.dk tells me that's a 34,8% tax, including the 8% labor market tax. But i have a feeling that your salary is a bit higher, so let's say it's 60.000 kroner, then we end up with 38,2% tax and 37.000 kroner net. Deduct 14.000 kroner for rent and you are left with 23.000 kroner.
Median montly salary in Denmark (including pensions) are about 39.500 kroner before tax.
Not sure how tax on pension works for your visa, but doesn't sound right with 50%, so i guess your 5 minute Facebook research is also wrong on that matter.
uidentificeret at 2024-03-24 22:23:16+00:00 ID: kwgleil
You're not gonna get much sympathy from this sub. It's overwhelmingly young, leftist students who've never paid net taxes and likely envision themselves working some kind of tax funded job in the future.
Yes, taxation in Denmark is absolutely theft. No, Denmark is not a paradise for any remotely ambitious person. You're just subsidizing the angry socialists that hate you in this thread.
The idea of Denmark is that you are a client of the state and should remain as such throughout your life. Want to own a house? Fine, but since you can't possibly save for it, we made it possible for you to "buy" one with a mere 5% down payment. Of course that will leave you indentured to the bank essentially for life.
Want to save for your retirement, maybe manage your own investments? Too bad. That's not up to you. You're forced to leave your retirement savings with a government sanctioned risk-averse and incompetent pension fund whose returns barely follow inflation.
And if you want any savings on top of that, good luck after paying 40-50% tax, 25% VAT, mandatory contributions, your home loan, all that other shit you mentioned, as well as by far the most expensive prime necessities (milk, bread, etc) in the EU.
I moved to Switzerland to save money for a few years. I make 73k per month gross and 57.5k net (in DKK). And nope, I won't get bankrupted by a medical emergency. I have full coverage for just 2k a month, which still leaves me way better off than any Dane with a comparable salary. By the way, in my field and with my experience I'd be lucky to make 50k gross in Denmark, which would leave me with 32k net on a good day (I'd have to earn 100k gross in Denmark to match my current salary after taxes). Practically I'm pocketing 25,500 DKK extra just for setting up my computer inside other borders. I don't know your specific situation, but in general you should leave Denmark if you want to be rewarded for your work.
The calculus changes if you have children. Then Denmark gains some ground relative to e.g. Switzerland, but it'll probably still be behind overall.
By the way, even with all that, the worst part about the Danish system, as evidenced from this thread, is that you are FORCED to love it. If you don't you're a pariah.
suspiciouslyanon at 2024-03-25 05:51:40+00:00 ID: kwhij38
Wellcome to the socialist dream.