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China renewables capacity additions soared in 2023, growing more than four times faster than the G7
(lemm.ee)
Disclaimer: OP doesn't support CCP or authoritarian communism.
But but but... China the enemy though, right? We should hate them for this! π₯Ί
(yes, I'm memeing a bit, life isn't black and white)
Their success in renewable energy doesn't change the reality that China continues to disregard human rights, democracy, and freedom of speech.
So we can give credit for the renewable energy progress, maybe copy few ideas, but thatβs about it.
No country is perfect and China is far away from it - but so are a bunch of other countries who call China out. Industrial nations have had more than 30 years to put out good numbers for green energy. Nuclear, wind, and hydro have been around for a long time. However those nations instead stayed at the top of the polluters and emitters lists - and they are still there.
huh?
Those nations still are at the top. You just showed it. Right behind China. Top 5 regions and countries are all those who have been there for decades. Also, China is at the very top because those developed nations moved production offshore to cheaper area with less regulation. If that were attributed to them, they would have a worse performance than they already do.
Just look at plastic pollution. Western countries point a countries in East Asia and tell them to stop polluting while exporting plastic waste there. Creating a problem elsewhere and then going "wow, look at the problems in your country, why don't you solve them?"
Now show per capita
Good on the EU. I think I was misremembering the comparison to the US as being largely in favor of China.
The planet doesn't divide by the number of people. Absolute numbers are all that matter to climate change.
This argument doesn't really track for me. The absolute number of murders is bad, but to say that a town of 1000 people has 50 murders, vs a city of 1000000 having 100, is to ignore that there is clearly something being done worse in the town.
I agree that the total emissions is the important factor, which is why we need to look at the countries that have much higher emissions per person and ask how are they failing.
Our goal is limiting climate change. It doesn't matter if the emissions come from 3billion people or 1 billion people. The total emissions must go down.
Correct, which is why we need to look at the lifestyles of the individuals that emit the most. If we look at CO2 emitted by a single home, and CO2 emitted by a city block, then say oh well the block is way higher, we are ignoring the actual waste and only seeing population numbers.
You're not convincing me. Sorry.
You are confusing an economic argument (where do we get the most bang for our buck) with the ecological argument. Continuing your allegory, that would be a bunch of arsonists ready to torch both towns to the ground. That must not happen.
I am actually not. I recognize that total CO2 is the important factor, which is why I argue we address the lifestyles of the individuals that emit the most.
Yes you do and you are still doing it. It is two different arguments, both are true, regardless of if one of them tracks with you or not. One is an argument about the need to act (climate change only care about absolute numbers) and the other is an argument about how to act (we need to focus on those individuals that emit the most). Both are true and a part of the bigger picture.
On a side note, it is also important to be inclusive. Consumption isn't the only way to address emissions. An even bigger possibility lies in those able to make decisions on the means of production. They are fewer, spend a lot more money, but are harder to find. Most of them works at corporations, though.
I am not.
The effects of climate change are based on absolute emissions and lines in the sand are irrelevant. The reason that we break down by country is to see the effects of different populations, governing systems, and climate policies. If we care at all about the effects of these, we need to weight our considerations based on the number of people we are looking at, otherwise, larger populations will basically always have more.