this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (13 children)

What's up with upper class trying to destroy middle class all the time? Are middle class a threat to them? Has to be, otherwise this wouldn't matter.

Make things hard for billionaires and spread their wealth amongst the lower class to start evening shit out. Who tf needs almost a trillion unspendable dollars?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (8 children)

There's no such thing as the middle class. You either own means of production, you sell your labour to those who do, or you belong to the criminal class that doesn't contribute to the growth of capital. The middle class is a fairy tale capitalists tell us to keep us in the labour class instead of the far more sensible criminal class.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I always wanted to ask this so might as well now, feel free to answer if you want: what are the means of production? In $cureent_year, that is.

We are not in 1870 Germany. We don't all work in huge factories owned by Rockefellers. I work in IT. My means of production is a laptop. I do own a few. I sell my labor to whoever needs IT services. Am I a capitalist or a communist? In the past I work for a big company and used their laptop. Was I being exploited?

The painter that is coming to fix my walls owns his ladder and spraygun. I assume he bought the paint with his own money. I don't know about the van, he might own it too. He sells his labor to me, who don't own anything of his. Is he a capitalist?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Are you a capitalist or a communist? You're certainly not a communist, I believe what you are hinting at is "socialized" vs "individual" labor, and it is a historically progressive development of capitalism. How a software developer fits into the means of production is they aid in the exchange of money from the sale of commodities, and make the transactions possible. But at the end of the day some product is being sold to some end user and you help to make that possible. Without the transaction there is no sale, which means no exchange of commodities for more money than they cost to produce and bring to market (profit or surplus value) which is the basis for the whole system, it is the point where the exploitation occurs.

Everyone is always "exploited" by the system, its part of what drives competition. But to be more specific, everyone is alienated from the system of production. we are all very individuated in our thinking, which bears out in our alienated experience. In more advanced or more advantaged countries, with a higher outlay of financial or investment capital, the class character of any individual is more specific and hard to suss out. In developing or economically repressed nations, where the factories of 1870s Germany still exist, alongside the factories of 1840s England, if not in capital than in conditions, the class character of any individual might be more clear and concise. Our "class character" is determined by our relationship to production, and it is not altogether straightforward. I've seen many fights like "are cops workers" and even "are baristas workers" that have sent me.

All that to say, capitalism promotes cooperation through competition, it socializes production, so that the product of your labor is just one part of a very complex whole. Even the painter has to pay for insurance on his van, probably has a couple loans for his business. The fact that your labor is socialized doesn't make you a communist. Communism is the struggle for a classless, moneyless society. It too will presumably also have socialized production, but also socialized ownership of the means of production whereas under capitalism the MoP is privatized. This is the fundamental contradiction within capitalism and it is right that you found yourself wondering about it.

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