this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (13 children)

Isn't that vegetarian, not vegan though?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (12 children)

"It's complicated".

It's the same category of dispute as the "eggs or milk can be vegan under certain circumstances" one. The argument is that rescued farm animals have been so warped by human intervention that it's actively harmful for you to not use their produce - dairy cows can in rare cases die, and otherwise will just be miserable, if left unmilked. Chickens lay too many eggs, and leaving unf. chicken eggs in the coop can lead to the chickens learning to eat their own eggs, so you have to remove them. (I don't hold a position on these claims, I'm just reporting what I see come up in the argument.) Bees fall into the same sort of category, they've been so selectively bred that they now produce far more honey than they can possibly use, so removing and eating some of it helps to mitigate the negative impact that humans have had on the creatures.

Regardless though: cows, chickens and bees are all still animals. I don't think any vegans are gonna argue that one.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 15 hours ago (11 children)

Seems like a weird thing though. A lot of domesticated animals can't survive in the wild. And even the ones that can, it would only be in certain parts of the world, and they'd be an invasive species.

So do we want all of those animals to go extinct? If you eliminate all farm related activities with these animals, give them a place to live out the rest of their lives, but then what? But do you not allow them to breed? Or just let them all die off so they go extinct?

Or do you keep some of them in zoos? Given they've been bred to live on a farm, does that mean you have zoos that are identical to farms? And if you can get milk, eggs and honey from these animals if they're technically living in zoo (which is exactly like a farm in every way) what's been accomplished?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

The response I've heard for that one is that domesticated animals are dependent on us because we've bred their survival capabilities out of them. People originally just captured wild animals and put a fence around them. Selectively breeding only the more docile ones has turned them into something they wouldn't have been without our interference. To me that part makes sense, but the present reality is still what it is, and what you're saying is still true.

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