Sorry ya'll, but if you are still shoveling these idiots money for most of your meals, then you personally are the problem. You should feel guilty every time you do it. You are hurting yourself. You are hurting your children. Tou are hurting your granchildren and future generations. You are hurting strangers. You are hurting everyone you care about. You are doing this all out of addiction and laziness. Not to mention the extreme torture that you are inflicting on the animals. It is time to grow up and take responsibility. You are not innocent because "other people do it too." You are guilty. Please admit this very clear fact to yourself and do better.

[+] [email protected] 31 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (24 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 months ago (8 children)

and a well rounded vegan diet is not cheap.

Not the person you are replying to, but want to counter that part specifically. The cost is actually usually the other way around. It's much more of a privilege to consume large amounts of meat and dairy

From a modeling study looking at healthy plant-based diets:

It found that in high-income countries:

• Vegan diets were the most affordable and reduced food costs by up to one third.

• Vegetarian diets were a close second.

• Flexitarian diets with low amounts of meat and dairy reduced costs by 14%.

• By contrast, pescatarian diets increased costs by up to 2%.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study

From some real world spending data

Based on primary data (n = 1040) collected through an online survey, representative of the Portuguese population, through logistic regressions, it was possible to conclude that plant-based consumers, particularly vegan, are associated with lower food expenditures compared to omnivorous consumers. In fact, plant-based consumers are shown to spend less than all other consumers assessed

https://agrifoodecon.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40100-022-00224-9

Compared to meat eaters, results show that “true” vegetarians do indeed report lower food expenditures

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800915301488?via%3Dihub ---(looking at the US)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Do you know if it's reasonable / practicable to be vegeterian while doing keto? I've enjoyed how it makes me feel but the carb limit is difficult to meet without meat.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I know of people that do even vegan keto. There's actually a decently large subreddit for it. There are resources out there if you feel inclined to do so

I'd always caution people about keto in general though, esspecially for meat heavy keto. A lot of the discussion around it is not always the most scientific

Much of what people may be observing from keto is likely not as much due to carb limits, but from watching food closer. On most diets, people tend to report stuff like weight loss because they're more aware of what they eat. Or in other cases, changing foods around accidentally ends up avoiding a very specific food sensitivity. For instance you'll find lots of similar observations from a whole-foods plant-based diet

If it's not being done for reasons like epilepsy, Keto overall has some not so great long term health impacts that people tend to gloss over. Though much of that research finding more negative outcomes look at people doing so with a meat heavy diet. Ranging from bone health to kidney damage. If I remember correctly, the more limited research about vegan keto has found better results, but I'd still advise caution in general

TLDR; yes it's possible and there are people that do it, but just be careful about keto in general because it's got some long term impacts that aren't so great

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Is there not a lot of conflicting evidence for, not keto specifically, but the role of fats and saturated fats (I believe the most concerning aspects of keto) in health? I did a bit of research before going on it and I think came to the conclusion it wasn't really backed as healthy nor unhealthy but couldn't be worse than eating garbage instead.

I'll be sure to check out the vegetarian / vegan keto subreddits though! Might find some nice meals ideas.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Reading through some more scientific reviews article, it seems like a lot of the risk comes from animal-based product consumption particularly. For instance, one study found increased all-cause mortality for keto with higher animal product consumption and decreased levels for a plant-based keto diet. However, given that most studies aren't focusing on that, it's still hard to tell if there's other risks not being included there. Additionally, a lot of the touted benefits of keto appear to wane over time and don't end up doing all that much better than other diets

I'd still recommend just being careful about it

Longer-term effects [of Ketogenic diets] can include decreased bone mineral density, nephrolithiasis, cardiomyopathy, anemia, and neuropathy of the optic nerve (82, 121). Ketogenic diets have low long-term tolerability, and are not sustainable for many individuals (48, 49). Diets low in carbohydrate have also been associated with an increased risk of all-cause mortality (122), although recent data suggest that lower-carbohydrate diets can be linked to either higher or lower mortality risk, depending on the quality of the carbohydrate they contain and whether they rely more on animal protein and saturated fat or plant protein and unsaturated fat, respectively (123).

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2021.702802/full#h1

Unfortunately, these effects seem to be limited in time.

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/5/517?d=40&cgid=9aS3

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