TowardsTheFuture

yes, yes, sell your soul to Genocide and maybe you can buy it back if you vote hard enough! Or at least they'll only increase the state sponsored genocide by a little bit more each year! That is.... uhhh. good? Yes thats what I want to call that. Good!

Wild you can say a but about still murdering tons of small children is irrelevant.

Fucking lol ok. Well, tried to be sane and reasonable but clearly you're not here for that. My bad. Sorry for treating you like a person.

I love that you love this theory that you cannot possibly get any data on magically but also cannot realize that the 0.7% of the total vote in 2016 the leftist third parties got is almost 10x less than the loss from voter turnout between 2016 and 2020. the 40% of people who simply did not vote at all are a BIIIIIIT more to blame than the 0.7% of people who voted third party, no matter how many of them would overlap with the DNC or not.

Spoiler candidates exist, sure, but that is shit like IIRC when republicans in miami funded a dude who didn't live in florida in a miami race because he has the same legal name as the democrat who was running.

That is a lot different than third parties who aren't even getting 1% of the vote. the DNC shot themselves in the face in 2016 and cannot get over it, so they would rather continue to scapegoat bernie bros and green party instead of just admitting their plan of pissing off as many progressives as humanly possible and trying to court republicans instead has not worked extremely well.

and finally, if you're cool with FPTP then great for you, keep voting DNC. No need to remove money from politics, support the poor, stop genocide, or anything important that would lose us money when we have something more evil than us to vote against! Yay! Some aren't stoked on how complicit in that idea the DNC is. I'm not going to tell someone with a straight face that democrats will fix everything we just have to vote for them another 600 times so they can.... keep going further from progress each year. Example being immigration they're pushing which is fully 2 steps backward to take one step forward.

Thinking democrats couldn’t possibly do it cuz republicans are is wild.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2024/10/01/project-2025-explained-what-to-know-about-the-right-wing-policy-map-ahead-of-tonights-vp-debate/?

If you seriously need an article on us supporting Israel’s genocide on Gaza I can as well.

Yea, republicans may be worse on these but the literal point of many voting third party is it’s absolutely fucked to just blindly accept the party of “slightly less excited for genocide but still definitely excited for genocide.” One party being worse should not be a pass.

You say 3rd party is irrelevant but also that 4x(revised now that I looked up exact numbers from 2020) more right 3rd party doesn’t prove it’s more than the left…. If there are only 2 relevant parties then… right goes to right, left goes to left. Shock. Awe. Ignore the weird centrist or actual independent or etc ones as those are hard to place.

Again, the issue is not that we have any third party vote. We should. It should be encouraged. It’s a fucking democracy. Dems trying to say trump will end democracy while simultaneously trying to remove 3rd parties is wild.

If we look at 2008 the left actually had 1.16x more than the right on 3rd party votes, and still won by 7% (10x the 3rd party votes on the left) where as 2016 the right had 3x the lefts 3rd party votes (2016 was a big third party year at ~3% right vs ~1% left. Who would guess 2 bad candidates leaves a huge 3rd party.) and then in 2020 the right had 4x the lefts third party votes. If anyone should be worried about “spoiler” candidates it’s the right as their third party has grown a lot more than the lefts. Hell 2020 the left lowered by half of 2008 (Even the crazy year 2016 it was only 0.71% of possible voters, 2020 was only 0.2% of possible voters. 2008 was 0.43% of possible voters.)

Again, 4x as many third party votes on the right. Spoiler effect ain’t shit to the left. If it was they would’ve actively tried and court progressives past Obama. The overlap exists yes but the DNC has not moved left much in 12 years leaving progressives pretty disenfranchised. It’s pretty obvious why many refuse to vote for a woman who used DNC funds to fight against the progressive candidate in primaries, or an old man who helped write one of the biggest anti-crime bills (which ends up a large anti-minority bill) and said nothing will fundamentally change,, or now a prosecutor who is “tough on immigration” refuses to denounce those actively committing genocide.

Medicare for all, or not supporting a genocide, or plenty of other options available to help attract progressives if they wanted it.

BUT again, rather than not vote at all those can at least vote 3rd party and still help down ballot. A lot better to win house and senate than lose everything.

Edit: updated to correct ratio of 4x based on 2020 data

So… you’re saying the DNC has not been actively ignoring progressives in favor of republicans since after Obama got elected? The “nothing will fundamentally change” party? The tough on immigration party isn’t actively courting republicans? Then who are they courting with that shit? The actively racist democrats in Texas and Florida? Why pretend suddenly immigration is a problem when it’s not? The country was built on immigration. We don’t need to deport more and split up more families. We need more immigration courts and better processes to help transition those families into legal immigration. Not give them court dates 5 months out and 300 miles away. Make batch hiring shit they do at meat packing plants illegal so we stop ending up with dead 16 year old kids they swear they thought were 32 year olds. Hell, crack down on wage theft and increase national minimum wage to a liveable wage (national+urban cost of living instead of single catch all) while we are at it instead of complaining about immigrants taking our jobs when we have to have two to live. Be plenty of jobs when everyone only needs one. And make Medicare for all so businesses don’t have to compete over expensive medical benefits.

But nah, be tough on crime and immigration instead cuz that’s what republicans want.

Also fuck man can be please stop giving almost as much as we spend on the entire countries education to supporting active genocide?

Sigh. Sorry deleted by moderator for replying with same thing they said which was I feel necessarily aggressive but it’s understandable.

Anyways;

A vote for Green Party/PSL/etc. is better than the alternative for those voting third party: not voting at all.

Those voting 3rd party will still vote dem down ballot often and will also support dems on amendments and ballot measures.

It is not worth losing the vote across the board, so just chill out and let them vote.

IF the DNC actually wanted those votes it would court those votes. Biggest difference in PSL/Green and DNC is stance in Israel/palestine and some socialist policies. (Well and PSL wants to nationalize the top 100 companies, but that’s probably too much of an ask). Instead of any of that they’ve decided to praise Israel and crack down on immigration. So… sure if you want to court republicans go for it but don’t cry when leftists refuse to vote for you.

Also… people complaining trump supporters don’t vote 3rd party: 80% of third party votes in 2020 were right (libertarian+constitution at 1.22%) 20% were leftist (Green+PSL at 0.31%) so… yeah… 4x more right wing than left wing 3rd party voters.

Edit: updated numbers using 2020 data.

To be fair, while I'd be like whoa lets not say centrists don't exist, someone going "Hm idk Donald Trump's policy of .... lets just let cops go wild and kill anyone they want for one day sounds pretty rational and good lets weigh that with Harris' policy." is uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh not a fucking centrist.

This is one specific to Long Island, not the entire Catholic Church.