That's not true. Several cis women play college and professional baseball. The same is true of endurance sports or ones where skill or intelligence are more important than strength. In pretty much every major sport, cis women are absolutely allowed to compete with men, but strength is so important in those sports that being more skilled isn't enough to make up for the physical disadvantage.
QBertReynolds
joined 1 year ago
Yes, trans men can and do compete with cis men. It's not talked about as much because the concern is usually about fairness, and those concerns just aren't there with trans men. If you're not able to transition when other boys are going through puberty, you're always going to be behind on muscle mass, and taking extra hormones to catch up is going to get you banned from competing for the same reason taking steroids will get a cis man banned.
Also, why are you putting women in quotes?
"Engineers have been circulating an old, famous-among-programmers web comic about how all modern digital infrastructure rests on a project maintained by some random guy in Nebraska. (In their telling, Mr. Freund is the random guy from Nebraska.)"
That's not quite right. Lasse Collin is the random guy in Nebraska. Freund is the guy that noticed the whole thing was about to topple.
Did you? Your nuggets of wisdom in this thread are that no one cares about women's sports, that the reason women don't try to compete with men is because they're afraid of the discrimination and abuse they'd face, and when people point out that there's a very real physical disadvantage that keeps women out of most men's sports, you drop some condescending accusatory question like "so the best woman sportball is worse than the worst man in sportball?", which, again, in a thread about trans women in sports, comes off as a gotcha question and an argument against the inclusion of trans women in women's sports.
I can see reading through your comment history now that you're clearly not the person I thought I was arguing with, but if you don't see how your comments in this thread could be taken the wrong way, I don't know how to help you.
I was going by how often you responded that way. It's cool though. I'm wrong. You win. Men are better than women or whatever.
Cool. This whole thread is about trans women in sports. When it was brought up that women are allowed to compete with men, you argued that women wouldn't want to because of the discrimination they'd have to endure, and you seem so excited to point out that men are stronger than women when people tell you why that's bullshit. Can you see why, in a thread about trans women in sports, that comes off as you trying to have a gotcha moment about how trans women are stronger than cis women and shouldn't be able to compete with them?
That's what I said.
No, you didn't once say that women were systematically shut out of baseball, you said they'd face hardship and discrimination if they tried and that's why they don't bother. Not being allowed is not the same as not wanting to try.
not a single woman who is more skilled
Strength and skill are not the same things. Lia Thomas was a top ranked swimmer as a male with times that would dominate women's swimming. That's not what happened when she started competing with women though. She transitioned, lost a ton of muscle mass in the process, and her times became slower as a result. Exact same skill level (maybe even higher since she was more experienced at that point), but she's not remotely capable of competing with men anymore.
It's why I used baseball as my example of a sport where women could compete if given the opportunity. It's a far more skill based than the other major sports. Will the first woman to make it to MLB hit 500ft bombs or throw 100mph? Probably not, but that won't matter if she can strike people out or generate runs.
Isn't that literally what you said about the NBA and the NFL?
Yep, but it's not the gotcha moment that you think it is. Again, trans women are not men. Transitioning gets rid of any strength advantage they had as men.
I think I've already pretty thoroughly answered the question of why women haven't played baseball at the major league level since Toni Stone, Mamie Johnson, and Connie Morgan played in the Negro Leagues in the early 50s; women have been systematically shut out of baseball for decades, and while those barriers are slowly being torn down, their effects will continue to be felt for a long time. We're only just now beginning to see women play at the collegiate and minor league level, so I would imagine we're still a few decades away from women playing at the Major League level.
The NBA and NFL are entirely different stories. Those are sports where brute strength is absolutely required and being huge helps a lot. It's definitely not some fear of discrimination that's keeping women out of those sports though.
Edit: Because I've seen your other responses, and I can tell you've been waiting for me to say something about how men are stronger than women so you can have your gotcha moment, I'll also say that trans women are women, not men. That male testosterone advantage doesn't exist for someone who has to suppress theirs for at least a year before competing to a level below what many cis women naturally have. Trans women have competed alongside cis women for decades and it's never been a problem. Republicans just needed a new boogie man.
I never said those were your words. I'm telling you how it comes across, and I'm letting you you're wrong about the reason "why it generally doesn't happen".
At least in baseball, a sport where intelligence, reaction time, skill, and experience matter a lot more than raw strength, the barriers for little girls who dream of playing in the Majors are a lot more than just the discrimination they might face if they make it that far. It's the deeply rooted cultural barriers that prevent women from even getting a shot, and in a sport where even 1st round draft picks spend years in the minors getting their reps in, lack of experience is a death sentence no matter how much raw talent you have.
At every level of play, girls are heavily encouraged to switch to softball or outright denied the opportunity to play. They're excluded from youth travel ball teams because "the boys will be bigger in a few years and need the reps". A lot of high school teams won't let them try out because Title IX considers a softball team equivalent. It took a lawsuit for Litttle League to allow girls to play baseball. Young women playing baseball at smaller colleges are often lured away with softball scholarships at big universities (not that there's anything wrong with pursuing better educational opportunities).
Every woman playing college or minor league baseball says the same thing; they faced far more discrimination as kids just trying to play than they ever have in the locker room once they got the chance.
There are none, and I literally just told you why. In sports like basketball, strength is so important that being more skilled than a man isn't enough to overcome the physical disadvantage women have. It's not that women are banned from the NBA.
The ability to jump really high is the obvious example in the NBA. Plenty of women are tall. There are plenty who can handle a ball and shoot at that level. But it's incredibly rare for women to dunk, and that's something everyone in the NBA can do. Spud Webb, at 5'7", could do it so well he won the slam dunk contest in '86. Meanwhile, only 8 women in the history of the WNBA have done it, and the vast majority of those dunks belong to Brittney Griner, who's 6'9".