this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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[–] [email protected] 80 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

Does this ridiculous number of antennas even do anything or is it just marketing wank?

[–] themoonisacheese 120 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Technically, it does provide better connection speeds by enabling the router to avoid channel hopping, so it can talk to multiple devices (or the same devices if it has multiple antennae) at the same time. This is part of the recent wifi6 and wifi7 standards so more and more devices will start to gain speeds using this technique

Realistically computers have at best 2 antennae and this is largely marketing wank.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 weeks ago

Though if you have multiple devices all trying to connect to wifi, like even a phone for example, then a computer having two antenna that it can actually use 100% of the time still sounds valuable to me.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Lookup "phased array" and "beam forming"

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[–] [email protected] 77 points 2 weeks ago

Lord Sauron would like a word.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (14 children)

It does. Wifi uses MIMO (Multi-in, multi-out) to run multiple concurrent data streams over the same channel width, which overcomes individual channel bandwidth limitations (there's only so much radio frequency space to go around). Each stream having its own antenna, and having larger antennas, gives stronger signal/noise ratios, less retransmitted packets, and overall better connections.

A lot of those high end "gaming" routers are often oversold though.... MIMO improves throughput if you have an Internet link it can saturate; realistically even a midrange 2x2 802.11AC router will provide more wifi bandwidth than your internet does. And for gaming, they do nothing to improve latency no matter how many streams you run, as wifi's inherent delay (5-15ms) is pretty much a fixed quantity due to its radio broadcast time-sharing nature. The meme is correct. A $6 ethernet cable beats any and all wifi routers and client adapters, and always will.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

To be more precise it's not each stream having it's own antenna, you combine the signals from all antennas and then "spatially filter" it into separate streams, but the number of concurrent streams is limited by the minimum of the number of antennas at both ends of the connection, if your device has only one antenna and your access point has eight you can only have one data stream.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I'm a network professional with a specialty in wireless.

Yeah, beam forming and mimo are the main reasons for antenna diversity. There's also more radio chains in those units typically, and more radio chains can provide better speeds if you have client devices that can take advantage of the extra radio chains (both sides need to have the same, increased number of radio chains to see an increase).

The antennas are fairly small/thin pieces of wire that are not very long, so the antennas don't need to look like that, but the quantity is useful.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

I believe it's for beam forming which can be used to improve signal strength in a specific direction.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

tell that to the $800 of copper running through my walls.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Hay $800 worth of copper, I found a 1000ft roll of shielded pure copper for $2.11 because someone misplaced the decimal point I know because it was listed for $2.1199 every thing was automated through amazon so they just shipped free shipping to, thank for listening $800 worth of copper, your the best.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

My PC, laptop, work laptop, are all wired using gigabit. But my laptop on wifi reach 1200Mbps so it's faster than cable!

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 weeks ago

Faster than gigabit, but not 2.5 gigabit. Your cables likely support the speed, just your ports and switching hardware are capped at gigabit.

It's not extremely expensive, but unless you move around a lot of big files, you're probably getting very diminished returns, even spending less than twice as much for 2.5x speeds.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 weeks ago

Impressive, I lose half my speed with the router around the corner.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

If you have only one device on Wi-Fi, multiplexing turned off, or especially if you have MU-MIMO support, Wi-Fi can be faster than a single wired connection. It is still higher latency and subject to other drawbacks such as security and power consumption, but of course it offers advantages that can outweigh the disadvantages depending on use case and user needs.

That said, it's technically not faster than the cable, but rather faster at the data link or network layer. For example, CAT8 physically supports up to 40Gbps, but most consumer and even professional electronics only support up to 2.5Gbps. Only really enterprise level switches can push up to like 100Gbps onto copper, and even then that's using QSFP transceivers, not RJ-45 connections. Fiber cables regularly push 400Gbps.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

*Excluding running ethernet cables to every room through the attic, down the walls to wall jacks. Also the cost of the jacks, and the various switches needed for several rooms. And the contractor to do it all.

But hey for like $600 I have cat6a in basically every room so

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

And the contractor to do it all.

Why wouldn’t you do it yourself?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

Like, in an old house its a massive pain in the ass to run that, but still firmly in DIY territory.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago

Disabled, so physically cannot do it, or I would.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And then you still need a wireless router to get Internet on your phone unless you use data at home like a crazy person.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Ethernet is obviously better but running ethernet around your home can be a pain in the arse

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

A pain in the arse you only need to do once, and you can hire someone to do it for you for basically the same cost as a couple of the high end wireless routers, so in like 5 years, you break even.

Also, how much have you spent on your computer (s), phone(s), tablet(s), and all your other internet connected devices, and you won't spend like $500 on something that can run all that stuff simultaneously? Pouring literally thousands of dollars on connected devices, but most won't pay more than they would for a toaster, to get them on the internet, then pay out the wahzoo for gigabit internet that your crummy d-link router can't handle, and you wonder why all your fancy gadgets run like shit.... It's a lot like buying a Ferrari to drive on dirt/gravel roads.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

I think it’s a little more than $500 to get Ethernet ports installed all around your house. Especially if you need to run through fire breaks and insulation. Will have to wait till a remodel before I can get those installed.

That said, I didn’t skimp on my home networking, even though it’s all wireless. I’ve got 4 WiFi 6 APs on PoE with Cat 6 runs thru the attic. I can get 700 Mbs+ download speeds pretty much anywhere in and around the house.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

But what if you're gaming downstairs and the router is upstairs and then you have to go upstairs for pizza rolls so you take your gaming laptop upstairs and you're eating right next to the router and so you're just plugged in and then what if you forgot to turn off the oven and your girlfriend is yelling at you "You're going to start a fire! Why can't you remember to turn off the oven? What's wrong with you?" and then you go back downstairs to finish gaming?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

If that happens often enough to be worth 43 times more than the cat cable, then it sounds totally justified to me. But also, what if you got a toaster oven for upstairs? To put next to the router?

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Dude I just bought 4 refurbished Linksys MX4200 (tri-band) access points for $80 (total), put on OpenWRT, and built a mesh system. I'm incredibly happy with the result, especially for the price. And, I've got wireless bridges all through the house so I can keep some things off the forwarding channels and only in the back haul.

It's not wired, but it's close enough and doesn't require me drilling through all my walls running cable or carving out a space in the house for all of it to coalesce.

Granted, I'm in an area with not a lot of wireless interference...I work in enterprise networking and I've had a lot of issues with remote workers on wireless networks that weren't capable of handling the volume of data that the users were uploading. Sometimes just because there's too much interference...but a lot of the time it's because of misconfiguration (either out of ignorance or because the good features, like multicast-to-unicast, are missing), or printer drivers that spam the wireless with multicast whenever the printer is offline (which I've seen a surprising amount of times).

If you're on wireless...multicast is bad, mmmkay? Only "one" device can talk at a time on wireless (barring MIMO shenanigans), and when it's multicast traffic...it has to get sent at the lowest compatible rates. A lot of routers set this to 6Mbps or even 1Mbps by default. So your nice fancy "1200Mbps" wireless has to slow down a crawl every time your Roku wants to tell Alexa that it's there. Which is surprisingly often. Scale up for all the internet-of-crap stuff people have and it's a miracle their wireless works at all.

Oh and I've found people with extenders they don't know about. Ring Chime? Apparently it functions as an 802.11n (only) extender. Huge bottleneck right there. And then it can only be as good as the signal it gets from the next access point.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I’m a nice fellow who provides free internet to all of my neighbors.

It’s a pain sometimes.

I worry about the teenager upstairs, but all the others are old ladies and it doesn’t bother me a bit…until I want to do something serious.

I’m about to (tax time) invest in a router that allows me to control their bandwidth. It’s free, so if 20mbps don’t work for them they can pay for it.

I will open up the kid’s PS5 so he can game. His laptop is getting 10mbps though.

Old ladies rocking 4k to sleep is too much.

They don’t pay for internet so they get the good good on their services. I’m too sorry and antisocial to go deal with it.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Let's see that ethernet cable do orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing...

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Wireless tech has improved greatly over the last 20 years. Speed, latency, bandwidth, stability…all generally excellent. 15 years ago I wouldn’t have wanted to use a wireless mouse or LAN connection. Now? NBD. They just work. Still have issues with poor signal in some areas, but mesh range boosters take care of that pretty easily.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

Wireless peripheral devices, sure, but if I'm streaming 4K with HD sound then I still want copper.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

I'm seriously thinking of getting a usbC-ethernet dongle for my mobile, for when I'm at my desk.

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[–] nonentity 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Wireless data links should be the exclusive domain of temporary, nomadic and/or sacrificial applications.

If the channel is permanent, static, or critical; as much of the path as practicable should be provisioned with constrained energy transmission.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

But that cable can't summon Kel'Tuzad unlike the router.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

6.99 is just one cost though. If you're needing ethernet actually done in walls then you're going to be paying a lot more than an access point.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I spend a lot more money on good Ethernet switches. But at least that works and is easier to manage than Wifi.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

Yeah this kinda overlooks a lot of the issues with like… getting a cable somewhere

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

I have about 6 or 8 ethernet cables in use plus more in my spare cables box, and I don't remember ever paying for one. Where do they come from? I never seem to run out.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

Phased arrays are not a joke. You can get ridiculous dynamic range with those

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

I got a used 10Gbe switch and a thunderbolt 10Gbe adapter for my computer and now I can transfer my videos and photos from my NAS like it's my internal hard drives.

It can also do 2.5Gbe which pretty much future proofs me.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Wait, what does the bomb from Halo 2 have to do with an ethernet cable?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

That one in the picture is $599 isn't it?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Just use something shielded and at least cat 5

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