this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2024
557 points (93.9% liked)

politics

19150 readers
1574 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Oh. The message I got was that many people today are so immature that they would rather join a collective psychosis than accept their own part in humanity

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

To be fair, there are multiple lessons to learn from this election cycle.

[–] zenitsu 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

We're gonna just continue to blame the Dems while ignoring that a massive online propaganda campaign brainwashed enough morons into voting again for a convicted felon who tried to steal the last election, and already had a dogshit first term? Even if you "fix" the dems, the propaganda will still paint whoever is representing them as worse than the fascist puppets on the other side, and the masses of dimwits will swallow it while thinking they're enlightened centrists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Propaganda doesn't work if people are happy with their current situation.

[–] zenitsu 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

BS, there were polls showing the massive disparity between how people responded to "how would you rate the current economy?" and "how would you rate your own financial situation?", about 70% had said their own situation was good or very good yet a similar amount said that the countries situation was either bad or very bad. Absolutely brainwashed

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Do you have links to these polls, please? I would be interested in knowing how they were carried out.

[–] zenitsu 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks for the links! I'm having trouble finding the exact questions asked, but when I look at the graph on this article: https://www.axios.com/2024/06/03/americans-finances-us-economy-outlook-divide

It says on the legend "Own finances (doing at least OK)" and "National economy (good or excellent)". This is subjective, of course, but the bar for "OK" seems a lot lower than "good". If someone asks how I'm doing and if things are going bad but I don't want to burden them with my concerns, my go-to is "OK" or "fine" but never "good". Simply feeling like I'll get by is enough for "OK" but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm optimistic. This would explain the entire world locking down but personal feelings of finance remaining pretty steady except for a bump UP after massive financial stimulus before a dip back down as greedflation gobbled that all up and then some.

As for misinformed views, those will be influenced by whoever is in power. Assuming the economy remains steady (which is a shaky assumption given many factors), I'm sure the same poll done again would have strong democrat and republican supporters swap their sentiments even though the underlying didn't change.

[–] zenitsu 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

As for misinformed views, those will be influenced by whoever is in power.

The point is that Dems generally have more accurate assessments of what's actually going on. Republicans are notoriously conspiratorial and misinformed and only getting worse. Even with republicans in power, you won't see such misaligned views from the left.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

There can be more than one lesson to learn from an election cycle. We need to learn all of the lessons. Accelerationism was a problem this election cycle. The right-wing information sphere continues to be a problem in the US.

The Democrats are not blameless either. Democratic consultants ran the Harris campaign into the ground and they are refusing to learn the lessons. As one of the two viable political parties, the Democrats are still our most useful tool out of those two political parties, but we have to recognize that they are neoliberals. edit: clarification

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 36 points 2 days ago

"The DNC hears ya. The DNC don't care."

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The message to ~~Democrats~~ neo-libs and neo-cons, is clear: you must dump ~~neoliberal economics~~ corporatism.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Translation: "Change who you are. Completely, not superficially. Just don't be who you are and have been."

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Which won't happen because that would require them to turn their back on the donor class, corporate media and lobbyists.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 83 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

One of the biggest unforced failures of the Biden administration is the reported complaint of Joe Biden that people weren’t acknowledging the economic turnaround.

Biden did a lot of good for the economy! Massive stimulus via the infrastructure bill, a sensible approach to recovery from Covid, acknowledging that recovery from an inflationary period would be necessarily painful, etc. He was a steady hand at a time when America needed one.

But what sends me into apoplexy, what really grinds my gears, is that this motherfucker was so out of touch to believe that this was a messaging problem. He felt that Americans had not yet heard of his accomplishments in turning around the tide of economic misfortune, how badly the republicans would have bungled it, and how the next four years would have been a period of huge growth based on the previous four.

All of these points were absolutely true.

But there is no housing supply. The economic pressures are so hard on young people that their biological impulses are changing.

Young empiricists have taken a look at the climate and have correctly deduced that their future is full of pain in the absence of truly radical action.

And Kamala’s strategy for relieving pressure on the housing market was a $25,000 credit for first time home buyers? In an environment where housing prices have doubled and tripled in fifteen years?

I am one of the very few members of the public that attended Feinstein’s funeral at San Francisco City Hall. And the only one there that day wearing sneakers. I attended her lying in state, paid my respects to a committed civil servant, and in the book, cautioned Pelosi against a similar, “ignominious” end. Then I hear that Pelosi has filed to run again in 2026. As an 86 year old.

At some point the Democratic leadership looks less out of touch and more actively malicious considering the serious and existential crises of the young and near-young in the United States.

The country is in decline because of its extreme individualism, its lack of compassion, and its ruthless “politics is the art of the possible” approach by leaders who could not possibly inspire with bold leadership.

The party is chasing local maxima.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And Kamala’s strategy for relieving pressure on the housing market was a $25,000 credit for first time home buyers?

This was also going to be coupled with a large tax credit to construction companies for building single-family homes and another tax credit for selling them to first-time homeowners.

Taken together, that all sounds pretty good. But I think what really needs to change is zoning laws. The problem is that the federal government has no control over the zoning ordinances of local communities. Hell, state governments barely have control over that. Usually whenever a rezoning of a neighborhood is brought up, it causes a firestorm at city council meetings.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Why is every Democratic policy a tax credit?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Very well said. I hated Harris' "economic plan." It wasn't going to make a dent. It might get some people in rural passover states afford a home, which is great for them, but would do nothing but maybe raise costs of entry level tiny condos in any city.

But I do think they accomplished a lot in Biden's term. If you compare the US' inflation to other 1st world countries, we recovered far better. We were moving in the right direction. It would have been far worse with Republicans.

And they accomplished all that with a festering rot of DINO obstructionists in the senate, and a republican controlled House. They did an amazing job with the limitations they had.

But they didn't adequately lay the blame in the right hands. They didn't address greedy corporate Housing speculation. They tried and failed to reign in "shrinkflation". And they failed to bring some sanity to the immigrant blaming, and instead somewhat joined in on it.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Harris' solution to the housing problem really annoyed me. There are so many other more effective ways to go about making housing more affordable but she just ignored them. This, in my uneducated opinion, would have also motivated more voters.

In a more general sense, the mainstream Democrats have always had a difficult time with messaging which is nothing new but really showed itself in this past election.

Democrats think that if you just spend time educating the voting population on all the good their policies will do then the voter will make a rational decision in the voting booth. And in the exit polling that is exactly who voted for Harris, highly educated people that like that kind of lecture type of politicking. But most people don't vote like that - they don't want a professor in the oval office they want a cheerleader.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Disagree on only one point: the time for a cheerleader has passed.

The people now want a Teddy Roosevelt progressive. A person who physically kicks asses and legally enforces regulations on the Corporates who are undermining the country's well-being to pad their pockets. A leader who is tough, speaks plainly, and has grit and vision for the conservation of natural resources.

None of these qualities describe any current members of the Democratic party.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (3 children)

As an outsider it seemed more like they had an image problem than an issue with their concrete policies. Obviously it could be both but I got a sense people believed the dems were out of touch.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

That is because the democrats have abandoned.the working class and use guilt and loyalty to effectively fool the middle class into policies favoring the wealthy.

Neither party is responsive to the working class because hourly wages are too low vs prices to allow for significant political donations.

So until actrue 3rd party catches the working class and moves american politics leftward, its just fewer and fewer with more and more.

Hence, keep people stupid so they dont figure it out.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

There were plenty of problems with the concrete policies on offer.

'most lethal military', tough on crime, secure the border.. it was ridiculous to see how far right the supposed left went in search of votes. Harris's platform looked more like Trump's from 2016 than it did Hilary's.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

"Look! Dick Cheney likes us!"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A cracked brick wall is more visible than a sinking foundation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Nice metaphor

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Biden spent four years massively pro-union, the Inflation Reduction Act was massive and not marginal with the job creation all over, and his administration remembered that the Sherman and Clayton Acts exist and used them. They have been everything a good leftist could want.

We live in a post-truth world, and the massive media oligarchy is in full effect, driven by the editorial desires of the hyper-rich. Dems could run Jesus and lose, at this point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Biden delivered on incremental changes typical of a neoliberal. These accomplishments did not fundamentally change our institutions. We need systemic change to our institutions because the problems with our institutions are systemic in nature. This is progressivism in a nutshell which Biden has wholeheartedly rejected.

The Democrats are not the left. They are a leaning-right of center political party. Their most recent campaign was sunk in large part because of consultants who are payed millions of dollars to ensure the Democratic Party does not stray far from the status quo. They are some of the people who need to learn abandon neoliberalism, but of course they are effectively payed not to.

Even if the Democrats won't listen, the rest of still need to learn the lessons. One of those lessons is learned by an evidence based analysis of what the Democrats delivered actually changed. Over the last four years, the Democrats have changed who is control of our institutions, but they have not fundamentally changed the institutions themselves. In short, we need to acknowledge that the Democrats aren't progressives, but neoliberals. They have been since Bill Clinton.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

America should get rid of that two party nonsense and start forming a proper government.

Those founding fathers would be ashamed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Those founding fathers discovered they had a two party system immediately and did nothing to prevent it from being cemented in place.

[–] [email protected] 98 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

Democrats: "Understood. We must try harder to win over the center-right."

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If the electorate consisted of 9 people who were doing fine, and one person that wasn't, we would have 9 no votes and one person that voted to destroy the system that allowed the 9 to be doing fine.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›