this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024

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235

How serious are you guys when you talk about punching nazis? (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I have been seeing plenty of guillhotine and mollotov jokes here, and as the title says, punching nazis.

I've been reading a book about nonviolence and anarchism, and he basically shows how we shouldn't use violence, even in extreme cases (like neo nazis).

The main argument is that the means dictates the ends, so if we want a non violent (and non opressing) society, punching people won't help.

And if it is just a joke, you should probably know that some people have been jailed for decades because of jokes like these (see: avoiding the fbi, second chapter of the book above).

Obviously im up for debate, or else I wouldn't make this post. And yes, I do stand for nonviolence.

(english is not my first language, im sorry if I made errors, or wansn't clear.)

(if this is not pertinent, I can remake this post in c/politics or something)

(the book is The Anarchist Cookbook by Keith McHenry, if you are downloading from the internet, make sure you download it from the correct author, there is another book with the same name.)

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

If you're punching with you fist, you are probably punching wrong.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

I am a pacifist. I would not punch anybody unprovoked. Provocation would mean a situation in which I have to physically protect myself or someone else.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I've been called a nazi on here for suggesting precisely that we shouldn't punch nazis solely for being nazis so I'm assuming it's serious for at least some people.

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago

I'm convinced a lot of those "punch a Nazi" people just wanted an excuse to be violent, and just joined the movement because it gave them an excuse to be violent. In another universe they are joining those three percenter militias.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago

I see some of that rhetoric and I think it's mostly the younger folks. The virility of youth combined with the challenges they are faced with leave everyone more on edge. There are other factors of course, lack of wisdom, Internet anonymity, etc

I don't think violence is a useful tool when fighting against hate groups. It's what they want. Then they have a claim that they are oppressed. You let them make the first move.

That being said, I'm ready to fight back against them at a moment's notice and will use all means. I see the luxuries most of us enjoy (food, electricity, clean water) and hope it never comes to that for all our sake. Our just-in-time economy depends on stability and COVID showed us how easily it can all get fucked up. Out of control violence is one of those ways.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think people saying that stuff are serious about advocating for political violence. I can't imagine how it wouldn't make things worse. Violence is a core element of fascist ideology, there's clear utility in using the attention it brings for recruiting, the trauma it inflicts for hazing, the experience for training. I remember when I saw a particular famous clip of a nazi speaking in public and being punched in the face by a masked assailant, I had never even heard his name before then, but after that clip was all over the internet that changed for a lot of people, and it definitely didn't get him to shut up. Maybe there's situations where people need to be defended, or there is need for someone acting as a bouncer, but I suspect in many cases it's some combination of useful idiots giving them what they want, or extremists on the other side who share their goals of agitating for armed revolution giving them what they want.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 months ago

They are not jokes. People here really don't see a problem with violence, unless it against "the bad guys". It's sickening.

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