Being proud of anything that you had no influence over always strikes me as odd.
this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
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no shit
Who could blame them?
I am proud of when the US, or anyone does good things. When that's not the case, why be proud?
Many young Americans lack experience outside the country, meaning they have a warped, likely from the internet, sense of what's right and wrong when compared to other parts of the world.
I'm proud to be an American, in the sense that I'd rather be here than many other parts of the world, even though I recognize there are issues requiring more attention and/or progress. Perhaps it helps that I view things under my own objective lens, gaining first hand experience in many cases, rather than sitting behind a screen and amping up my ignorance.
It's OK to disagree with me of course. Everyone has their reasons, whether pro or anti, but I'd personally question how much experience people younger than myself have in other parts of the world. Many Americans take things for granted with little understanding of how good they have it. Obviously not always the case, but traveling the world is eye opening and no amount of internet research can substitute those experiences.
On the flip-side of this, I had a close friend who traveled the world extensively for 10+ years. Last time I saw him he had visited 65 different countries, often living for months or even years in some of them. He hated coming back to the USA. He said our ideas of freedom and liberty are complete fabrications compared to a great many EU and Asian countries. He always had to add hours to his flight times when traveling through or within the US because he refused to go through the naked scanner, because he felt that they violate our individual rights and privacy. He said he didn't need to deal with those anywhere else. That's just one small example out of a list of dozens that he gave me.
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It's hard to have true perspective on what it means to be an American with my limited travel. I've never been out of the country. I've been to most southern states, but live in the west coast now (much prefer it here) and am very aware of my bubble. It doesn't take interaction from people living in countries with free healthcare and great work reform to know that our shit is fucked, though. Proud - not yet. Determined to make this a better place - yes.
When I graduated college in the 2008 I read Richard Rorty's "Achieving Our Country" as we entered the recession and were dealing with the shame of Guantanamo, Iraq, and Bush era generally. During this time we also started to experience the rise of identity politics. I was glad I read this, because it helped me avoid the pitfall's of what Rorty criticized as the "New Left" iirc. This is contrast with the "Old Left" "Progressive Left" he identified it. The New Left focused on America's shame from which there is no redemption. The New Left equates patriotism with John Wayne style Chauvinism, American Exceptionalism, and belligerence. With identity politics, it seems even worsened that the new left cares about ideological purity and sin which prevents coalition type movements.
The old left Rorty championed takes a different view. For him, patriotism or love and pride of country that is abandoned by the new left is a harm to the country. The analogy he makes is that similar to how self love and self respect is a necessary condition for an individual to self improve themselves, love of country and national pride are a necessary condition to the betterment of a nation. The old left was more able to balance or reflect on criticism and shameful acts in our nations history, but through love of country and national pride work to improve it. The old left was also more willing to tolerate and cooperate with groups that did not have 100% alignment on views or experiences. The blue collar workers put there flesh and bones on the lines during strikes, but alliance with elites is what made these strikes publicized in the news and move the needle at a national policy and political conversation.
It's a shame that so many young people are finding it hard to balance that love of country with critical national self reflection. People I have very similar political views gawk or chastise me when I describe my sense of pride or love for the US. It's strange how simply loving one's country or taking pride in it is taboo in young leftist folks today, and that makes me somewhat fearful of the future.
Paywall likely, but this Atlantic article does a decent job capturing the gist of the book: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/advice-for-the-left-on-achieving-a-more-perfect-union/531054/
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I never got the point of civil pride. I was born and raised in a third world country, and people left and right were saying how proud they are to be from there. The fuck y’all proud of? Trash everywhere? Tourists getting scammed and harassed? Your own government making people “disappear”? Your president building unnecessary bridges and crippling the economy?
It always sounded so stupid honestly
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