this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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Autism

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[–] [email protected] 102 points 8 months ago (5 children)

"I know that social cues are hard for you and you are trying your best and I can't expect you to get it right on the first try, but I will shame you when you do and react like you didn't even try or did it on purpose."

[–] [email protected] 34 points 8 months ago

"And I would never bully someone for being autistic"

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"or react like you didnt even try"

tbh, they are often in the same boat with autistic people. normies are allowed to be offended and not be able to make the connection to autism.

they should practice kindness but so should the rest of us.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for pointing that out. I wanted to edit in something like that, but it felt like rambling.

It's frustrating when people react badly to what they incorrectly percieve as hostility, but it's not on them to read my mind and know the full context.

It's extra frustrating when people know but still get insulted by what they on an intellectual level know isn't an insult. It's human nature and it takes practice to manage that.

All in all, people may even both know and be patient but still find my behavior exhausting. And it's unfair to expect them to bend around me.

This is why I'm annoyed when people protest at any mention of "masking" as if it's evil. It's not. It's just basic courtesy to not confuse or upset people. Just be aware of how much you can do it healthily is all.

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[–] [email protected] 93 points 8 months ago (24 children)

This is why I can't do online left wing spaces any more. They talk the talk about ableism, but then its "why can't you boycott the only food you can eat, just eat something else", "you could talk to service workers if you wanted to, you just think you're better than them".

Then sharing a video of people with their fingers in their ears at a black music festival with a caption calling them racists, when they're clearly autistic people enjoying the festival but having sensory problems.

I blame the popular understanding/misunderstanding of neurodiversity. People think autism is just a personality type.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"you could talk to service workers if you wanted to, you just think you're better than them"

As a service worker, don't talk to me any more than you have to

(edit): Felt the need to elaborate on this. It's not that I resent having to talk to you or anything, it's that we're human too and we're prone to the same anxieties our customers are. Some of us are social butterflies, but for me it gets exhausting after a while, so it's annoying when people talk to me about things that aren't related to how I can help them. It's hard enough for me to converse with people I'm actually friends with!

There's nothing you can throw at me that I won't be able to help you with, so don't be scared to come to me. But unless you're telling me you like my hair or my outfit or something, I'd rather jump straight into helping you with what you need.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Good news, I don't talk to anyone unless I have to.

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[–] Socsa 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well, that and the weird obsession with autocracy because they can't admit that their folk heroes might have actually just been assholes who did more to harm leftist movements than any western opposition ever did.

[–] SuddenDownpour 33 points 8 months ago

That, the other thing, and resorting to campism to immediately choose simple, identity-based positions over complex ones that are more coherent with specific ethical principles. At least there's people who get everything right, even if they aren't too many.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago

People are fake. A lot of online spaces outside of spots like Facebook (which is Gen X/boomer territory) are more so left leaning, so a lot of people tend to spout what they think is popular. Some might believe it but won't put any efforts into practicing those beliefs, while others just simply don't believe what they're sharing.

Pride month is a good example of this. As soon as the months over most people who were spamming their socials with all sorts of LGBT support messages could care less.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (12 children)

And don't you dare tell a vegan you can't drink anything with plant milk!

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 8 months ago (13 children)

Maybe we should raise our standard to "don't bully."

[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Sadly we love hierarchy dominance just about as much as we hate how much it makes us look like apes.

Teachers and school administrators almost always side with bullies. They can't help themselves.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I've ulcerative colitis and it's flared up. Medical advice is no to low fibre, no veg unless it's boiled soft like a mush, no garlic, no onions, no mushrooms, no red meat, no sweet corn. I can only eat white meat, fish, white rice, potatoes like mash, white breads like a loaf, bagels and brioche. I'm not being a picky eater, I literally can't eat some things because they'll fuck with my gut and make my disease worse. Fuck inconsiderate people.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That sounds tough. I once knew someone who had a medical issue with severe dietary restrictions like you, and a tone deaf coworker was like “haha at least you can lose weight, sounds great!” FFS

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Tell me about it. My flare up started months ago and I've dropped a clothing size. Everything I have is baggy on me now. It's been so bad that I'm being put onto immune suppression medication in the hope I don't have flares again. I also have autism traits like sensory issues and being unable to make eye contact as well as poor reading of social ques.

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 8 months ago (2 children)

... this just reignited my desire for a boyfriend, but like, one that's also autistic, so he fucking gets me. We'll have lunch in perfectly comfortable silence at a busy diner and judge people that talk too loud in public. It'll be great!

[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Some friendly advise. A neurodivergent partner can be great but you can never assume they will be similar to you in the same setting. Coping mechanisms can be opposites and what is comfortable for you may be stressful for them.

Me and my partner are both on the spectrum and i wouldn’t have it any other way but its common for at least one of us to deal with something at any given time (so there are few true breaks from stress) and at worst our challenges can amplify eachother.

In the end everyone is unique so maintain an open mind when dating and try not tp judge all neurotypicals the same way.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Maybe I'm autistic because that sounds fucking awesome. Fuck small talk. I just like existing by people I care about.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

My wife is autistic, can confirm lots of happy, comfortable silence. We also have a collection of white sounds, and different rain sounds from around the world lol

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 8 months ago (3 children)

You could just, you know, just skip the false virtue signaling and not bully anyone.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

I do believe that is the point of the post; however, it also implies that the kind of person it describes does not understand that they are actually engaging in bullying behaviours.

Ableism is so entrenched in society that "teasing" (thought of as playful, but is actually harmful) people for being a little different is not seen as anything to bat an eye at. Media upholds the normalization of this kind of ableism through shaming these traits in the form of "jokes" — meaning that when people in turn do it to others, they often believe themselves to be engaging in funny banter. When it is actually creating an environment that others autistic and neurodivergent people. Ie, upholding systemic ableism. All without their knowledge.

The point of a post such as this is partially for autistic people to commiserate, but also hopefully for a few people to stop and think about their own behaviour. If they are the kind of person who wishes to be inclusive to autistic people, seeing this might make them realize how they do unconsciously bully autistic people when they denigrate people with these traits. And hopefully they will stop, though it takes time to deconstruct and unlearn this kind of behaviour.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 8 months ago (11 children)
  1. You shouldn’t really bully anyone autistic or not
  2. Don’t mistake someone trying to encourage positive behavior as bully. Just because you have one of these behaviors doesn’t mean you correctly self-diagnosed yourself with autism either
[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago

Positive according to whom? What’s positive for you may be destructive for me.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 8 months ago (6 children)

Whoever considers picky eating a problem can take it up with me, my friend is one, which simply means I get to eat the stuff she doesn't want to, and she can order something she might not like, knowing I will eat it anyways. It's a win win

[–] [email protected] 59 points 8 months ago (1 children)

As a father who either has to prepare the same meals over and over, or else make two separate meals, I do not share your positive outlook

[–] SuddenDownpour 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It gets much better when the kids become co-responsible of their own alimentation.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Thank you friend, from an autistic person with food issues.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (8 children)

Additional thanks from a fella whose brain reacts to weird textures in my food by gagging or vomiting. It's so embarrassing, especially around friends.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Hey, someone else with the same issue as me!

Yeah it sucks. So I end up getting a lot of the same things over and over again because I know what the texture will be.

'Hurr durr you're so picky' - or maybe I just don't like gagging and vomiting and can't control that reaction genius.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 8 months ago (3 children)

As someone with OCD but without ASD, I can understand a bit of this. But a helpful tip is not to bastardize something people are enjoying that you, yourself would have an issue with as a way to rationalize your dislike.

For instance... If you have an issue with a certain type of food, don't make fun of it while people are eating it and they won't feel attacked and respond in the like. (it'll just become a tit-for-tat and devolve)

Instead of saying "Eww... I'm not eating mushrooms, they're a fungus and they're gross and they feed off rotten things." Just give a bit of obfuscated truth and say something like, "No matter how many times I've tried, my mind just won't let me do this or eat that." No need to explain any further as many people can have issues with different things, so there'd be no need to give your diagnosis.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Taking each of those symptoms in isolation, how would someone know that person is autistic? Pretty sure the sentiment behind the "I would never bully someone for being autistic" statement is that if they knew the behavior is caused by a condition then they wouldn't bully that person. The difference being that it would then be assumed the behavior is due to something out of their control.

You could take the absolutist position of "don't bully anyone for any reason" but how absolute is that position? Is it not okay to call a politician an idiot or an asshole for doing something you don't like? What if they have a condition that makes them behave in a way that you call idiotic or assholeish? A child refusing to even try to eat something their parent worked so hard to make could be considered assholeish behavior, are we to assume it's because they have autism and thus never call them out on it?

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (4 children)

The key word here is "bully". It's also a tricky word because the line where bullying starts is often blurry. There's a context-dependent spectrum of gray that makes up the difference between bullying and calling someone out on assholeish behaviour. I think you're right that absolutist poisons don't work here.

My reading of the initial post was somewhat different than yours. I imagined the person saying "I would never bully someone for being autistic" as someone who believes themselves to be a Good Person(TM), despite engaging in bullying behaviours. My brain went there because I've known people like that. Maybe they would refrain from bullying someone who they knew as being autistic, but if they take that approach, they're going to inadvertently bully a heckton of autistic people for their autistic traits, just because they don't know they're autistic. I don't think that's okay.

I interpreted the original post as advocating for being more tolerant regardless of labels or identities, because often, we don't know the full context behind a behaviour. A complement to this is that being autistic doesn't exempt you from being an asshole. I want to be called out for shitty behaviour, but I don't want to be bullied.

I feel like I'm articulating my point badly, but something that's underlying this entire comment is a book I read a while back named "Racism without racists". It looks at racism as a product of the system, and how neutral or even good people can be a part of perpetuating it. Acknowledging this is a necessary and often uncomfortable step towards dismantling unjust systems and it doesn't mean that people are Bad People(TM). When people feel attacked and perceive "the system that we are a part of and that some of us benefit from is structurally racist" as being an accusation of "you are racist", it leads to them becoming defensive and refusing to acknowledge the address of the broken system.

I think ableism functions in a similar way. Society is ableist on so many levels, but I've found discussing this to be difficult when I have to walk on eggshells to avoid people becoming offended as if I have accused them of being ableist (even if I haven't used that word at all and am focussing on constructive discussions about way forwards). It feels hypocritical when people consider themselves an ally, but then have the audacity to take a basic access request like "please don't label the event as wheelchair accessible if it isn't" and make it about them, becoming outraged. My take on the original post is that it's directed at this kind of hypocrisy.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My ex kept the relationship going for an extra month to find any reason to break up that wasn't a sign of autism, because all the reasons she felt were issues were autistic behaviors.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (11 children)

I'm autistic, but I can pick up on most sarcasm and most implicit statements

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I also can pick up 100% of the sarcasm and implicit statements that i notice.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I recently had someone acting high and mighty with me pretending I was a bigot in literally every way to try to win an argument about joking about wealthy people being lizards. They rounded it off by saying I was using big words to bully her because she was a woman. I had no idea she was a woman, and frankly I don't care because she's clearly dishonest and ableist AF.

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