this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2024
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    Debian's Dilemma (sh.itjust.works)
    submitted 9 months ago by loaExMachina to c/[email protected]
    13 comments fedilink hide all child comments
     

    [Image description: A fox-woman wearing a dress the color of the Debian logo is being pulled by the sleeves on one side by a gnu man and on the other side bu a penguin. She has an annoyed expression. The gnu man says: "Debian, why do you offer a non-free firmware repo? You're so close to being one of the few fully free distros... Don't you believe in free software?"

    The penguin says: "Why isn't the necessary firmware installed by default ? It's such a pain when you install and it can't connect to network... You're so close to being practical, Debian !" ]

    top 13 comments
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    [–] [email protected] 125 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Not only is Debian absolutely correct in offering a non-free repo, any distro destined at desktop usage should leave it enabled by default.

    Nothing wrong with a distro that's built entirely on free software. But if you believe this is ever going to be how actual people use their computers, you're delusional. You might also become obsessed with the name given to an operating system that became extremely popular using (optionally) some of your components, driving you nuts.

    [–] [email protected] 59 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I've argued this for point for so many years and have become exhausted to the point where I don't even bother any more.

    Free software advocates, God bless them, are fighting a good fight but we will never see the average computer user giving up functionality for the sake of some computing ideology; whether that ideology be free software, privacy or security focused. I'm glad some people are willing to do so as I believe strongly that the world would not be where it is today if it weren't for it's existence offer the last two or three decades. But the reality is that 90% of the world views computers, phones and tablets as tools; a means to achieving an end, not the end in and of itself. There may be some subset of people who are willing to give up some convenience or utility if they believe strongly enough in one of these ideologies, but most of them will never care about the license of their software as long as it gets the job done. But this is precisely why we need people who do care about these ideologies because software freedom ultimately is important and people do benefit from it. It just needs to be as good as, if not better than, it's non-free counterparts

    [–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

    I look at it like this: the percentage of most people directly using FOSS vs proprietary software is 0%.

    If I can get them to use even one piece of FOSS software, that increases the percentage, which is a win for FOSS.

    I moved my parents onto Linux Mint a few months ago. They still use Spotify, Gmail, Chrome, Outlook, Onedrive, etc. But they are doing that through Linux, and I got them to switch their office suite from MS Office to OnlyOffice.

    So instead of them being 100% on proprietary software, they are now using Linux, which protects them from malware and Microsofts spyware and bs, and makes them aware slightly of FOSS and how good it can be.

    That is a net win as far as I can see. FOSS usage just increased slightly, and proprietary decreased, no other tradeoffs were made.

    [–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

    I'm glad some folks actually "get it".

    Computers are tools to get stuff done. It's ok to be a big FOSS advocate, but when you put your need to be a absolutist over practicality, you really lost the real world use of things.

    [–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

    As a freeware stan, i dont disagree. Ease-of-use v. a one time fee for many ppl is going to be a no brainer in not the direction i would go with. Nevertheless, i still imagine that the more free software alternatives there are, the more the overall quality of software will go up as well. Similarly, if there are more software alternatives, the higher the chance that ppl choose a stable option by an independent dev asking for a reasonable price.

    [–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

    I am a very early Linux adopter (Red Hat Halloween) and I remember standing up my system piece by piece. It was fun back then but now I've got better things to do. Now I just install Pop!_OS and I am 98% of the way there.

    If I was in my early twenties again, and trying to learn and tinker, then I would absolutely be running Arch or full FOSS Debian build. Either would be running only the absolute necessary software and nothing more. Just like I use to do it back in the day.

    [–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

    Hint: if the non-free firmware is necessary to make most systems work, Debian is not actually all that close to being completely free.

    [–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Debian is a fox? Is it due to the naruto-ish logo?

    [–] loaExMachina 32 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Biblically accurate Debian is a sentient twirly magenta spiral. Jk, I don't know, I hadn't thought of Naruto, tho it's a good reasoning. At first I just figured Debian should be a sophisticated looking lady with an old-ish style, both because it's an old distro and because it has what I find to be the most elegant logo. I thought of using animal features because I'd done it before with Arch in a previous meme, and that was due to the whole "femboy" cliche. I wondered if I should go for a cat again or some other cute animal, and I remembered there was a fox girl named Xenia which had once been proposed as a Linux mascot; so I went with that.

    [–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago

    I would expect some Toy Story character, but it seems that we really only have the pink swirl as a mascot. Thank Lord it does not have the eyes as Clippy does

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

    At first I just figured Debian should be a sophisticated looking lady with an old-ish style, both because it’s an old distro and because it has what I find to be the most elegant logo.

    Finally, a representation of a linux distro not as a supergay/transgender femboy fox/cat/loli/shota.

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

    looks more like a snail to me. probably something to do with speed of updates. jk

    [–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

    I like this meme. it captures my thoughts about it as well. on the one hand, I don't want non free firmware blob in my machine(which I don't have :)), and on the other, it took me hours to get the right firmware on a relative's laptop.
    I personally would've liked a separate media with nonfree firmware blobs, but the voting on the matter rejected that idea.