this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2024
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A Michigan man whose 2-year-old daughter shot herself in the head with his revolver last week pleaded not guilty after becoming the first person charged under the state’s new law requiring safe storage of guns.

Michael Tolbert, 44, of Flint, was arraigned Monday on nine felony charges including single counts of first-degree child abuse and violation of Michigan’s gun storage law, said John Potbury, Genesee County’s deputy chief assistant prosecuting attorney.

Tolbert’s daughter remained hospitalized Wednesday in critical condition from the Feb. 14 shooting, Potbury said. The youngster shot herself the day after Michigan’s new safe storage gun law took effect.

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[–] [email protected] 253 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Finally, a sensible gun law.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 9 months ago (5 children)

It will get challeged to the Supreme Court and struck down.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/

"In sum, we hold that the District’s ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense. Assuming that Heller is not disqualified from the exercise of Second Amendment rights, the District must permit him to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home."

[–] [email protected] 85 points 9 months ago (10 children)

I just don't understand the US and the 2nd. You're not allowed to have a lot of various weapons and it just states that people can be "armed", which could mean a lot of things. And even then, having a gun stored away safely is absolutely not infringing on that right either, as long as you have access to it. This is just obsessive gun fetishism and it constantly gets people killed, including little kids.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's literally gun fetishism. Full stop.

The people who will angrily defend 2a are perfectly happy watching children die if it means they get to keep their guns. They'll give you all kinds of excuses, they'll come up with all manner of justifications, but the truth is, they just like feeling powerful and are willing to sacrifice innocent lives for it.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Don't forget the racism. The NRA's perfectly fine with throwing away gun rights if it means making sure only white people are armed. For example, even as Harlon Carter was ramping up his crusade to turn the NRA from a sportsman's organization into the gun lobby, the NRA still supported the Mulford Act, because at least that was taking guns away from those damn ni- I mean, "violent extremists". They were dead silent when a legal, responsible gun owner like Philando Castile was killed. They never said anything when the textbook definition of a "good guy with a gun", Emantic Bradford, was killed. And we all know damn well why.

The Harlon Carter school of gun rights comes with a major caveat present in many strains of conservatism: no restrictions as long as you're part of the right group.

I will say this though, the issue is still pretty complicated, because basically both sides have some history of racism (gun control first started as ways to assuage fears of black uprisings, plus the aforementioned Mulford Act), but then, what part of American society isn't in some way permeated by our racist history?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago

I dunno, it sounds like you understand it perfectly. A large contingent of the U.S. has decided guns are more important than children's lives, and that's why they have more rights.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (9 children)

The Supreme Court has ruled that you're allowed "bearable arms", so essentially anything that can be carried, for self defense. And that requiring a weapon be kept locked up defeats the purpose of self defense.

Oregon has a law that requires guns be locked up, but dodges the self defense aspect by allowing an exception for guns under the direct control of the owner.

So if I'm home and in direct control of my guns, they don't have to be secured. If I leave home or am not otherwise present, they do.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 9 months ago (9 children)

This isn't preventing him from getting a firearm this is charging somebody with improper storage of a firearm. Not sure how likely it is the supreme Court will rule against it but it's different than the laws challenged so far

[–] [email protected] 24 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Theses fucks are going to suggest that any mandate on how a person keeps their gun (as in in a box, in a safe, etc) is a restriction on their rights.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

We need an Al Gore like figure who can charismatically drone on about needing a "Locked Box".

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't seem much different than a parent getting charged when their kids find their stash of drugs and consume them or take them to school.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It isn't. But the freedom to own guns without any sort of restriction is much more loudly, enthusiastically, and financially supported than the freedom to consume drugs in your own home.

And thus it won't matter that the key thing is being irresponsible. Being irresponsible with guns and drugs in the home are completely different things in the Modern Republican mind.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Where does the 2A say anything about "immediate self-defense"? Oh that's right, no where. Fuck SCOTUS

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Doubt SCOTUS ever touches this.

The language matters A LOT: Michigan's mirrors California's, which would absolutely hold up to any constitutional challenge because it requires negligence with an adverse outcome. Michigan's and California's basically say you're a criminal if two things are met: you had any plausible expectation of a child being around, AND something bad actually happens.

Every states are a little different, and at the other end of the intelligence spectrum are New Jerseys and New Yorks, and nobody even cared to challenge those yet. New Jerseys statute says you're a criminal, regardless of circumstances, if the guns are not locked up per some collection of criteria at all times when you're not actively accessing them. I do know that most of New Jerseys rare prosecutions are actual bullshit, for example a cop going door to door to gun owners because of some local crime, asking to see someone's gun to check it and not liking that the safe in the room he was in when they showed up was not completely locked (never mind he lives alone). Expect any challenge to arise there.

If SCOTUS does throw out all storage laws, it'll be because of politicians who care more about their resume than about writing really good laws.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They did leave some wiggle room which has allowed the law here in Washington to stick around. Basically if there is a reasonable possibility that a person who is not allowed to handle firearms would have access to them, you can apply restrictions. Guns here have to either be on your person or locked if there is a possibility that your kids could access them.

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[–] [email protected] 115 points 9 months ago (9 children)

I do not understand how a parent can be so irresponsible as to leave a gun easily accessible in a house with children. Kids are really really resourceful. Its bit like keeping a hyper intelligent racoon inside with a drive to kill itself through curiosity. Guy definitely deserves charges

[–] [email protected] 81 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Because a gun lock is liberal and gay and if you use one you basically are announcing to the world you just bought Beyoncé tickets.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Man how fucked is this timeline that I had to scratch my head a bit over whether this was a sincere response or a caricature of a particular US demographic?

[–] [email protected] 51 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I wrote the goddamn thing and even then I was like holy shit that almost comes off sincere

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

The sad thing is, in this timeline it isn't out of place among the whackadoo things they've said.

The hillbillies think Taylor Swift is part of a conspiracy to prevent electing their chosen dictator of all things. That's where they are now. It isn't like what you wrote is too far ahead on the road of crazy; more like it's barely visible on the rearview.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago

"You wouldn't wear a condom on your man weapon would ya? Why would you safely secure your firearm? Murica! Fuck yeah!" - probably some dumbass

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago

A not guilty plea was entered Monday on behalf of Tolbert, who also faces one count each of felon in possession of a firearm, felon in possession of ammunition, lying to a peace officer in a violent crime investigation and four counts of felony firearm, Potbury said.

He said Tolbert is barred from possessing firearms and ammunition because he has multiple firearms-related felony convictions and drug-related convictions.

This guy is already not a winner. I was going to make a comment like "even with improper storage putting him in prison is going to hurt the family more than what's already happened", but given his record, going back to prison might be a net benefit for society. Hopefully any other kids in this family will have someone to take better care of them.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

It doesn't take much to understand it. He's from Flint. If you know the area, there's a lot of reciprocal violence. He has previous offenses. It's hard to get out. He probably knows plenty of people who've had loaded guns around their kids and nothing ever happened.

Yes, he deserves the charges, but like, this isn't some gentrified place. As a society, we really aren't helping folks in depressed urban areas to get better lives either.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (24 children)

I do not understand how a parent can be so irresponsible as to keep a weapon designed only to maim or kill in their house with their children.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The farther you get from America, the more woefully absurd it sounds. But, right in the middle of America, it's a very different place.

And at this point in time, gun fetishism has gone meta-static and is afflicting many different states.

And it's not the possession of guns alone: I've seen the exposé where Switzerland's gun culture is compared, and questions are asked about how they can have one gun per adult and still suffer an almost non-existent rate of accidents and murders. A lot of it resembles the 1950s where kids would be part of a school .22 target rifle team, store their guns and ammo on the premises and still no one got hurt.

I really think it's the worship of guns, where Meal Team 6 tries to emulate cowboys of old, and fails on every level.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Surprised that's a new law. In NM recently, in a particularly stupid case, some 14 year old kid shot his friend, a girl, I think on accident... then dragged her body outside and made up an idiotic story about how it was a unknown-motive drive-by and someone in a black SUV shot her. Anyway, his dad had a ton of guns just casually laying around their trailer or house or whatever. The father has been charged with 'negligent making a firearm accessible to a minor resulting in death'.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Gun laws vary by state, my guy.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

Yes, this is a great example of that.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago (2 children)

He pled not guilty? Really?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That can be a claim, whether or not they're disputing the basic facts, that the situation doesn't match the specific crime the defendant is accused of.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

If he plead guilty he'd be accepting a felony charge and would have to give up his guns. He's probably holding out for a plea that lets him keep them.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

He was already a felon:

A not guilty plea was entered Monday on behalf of Tolbert, who also faces one count each of felon in possession of a firearm, felon in possession of ammunition, lying to a peace officer in a violent crime investigation and four counts of felony firearm, Potbury said.

He said Tolbert is barred from possessing firearms and ammunition because he has multiple firearms-related felony convictions and drug-related convictions.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Pretty shitty parent/person prioritizing his guns over the safety of his two-year old.

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[–] Assman 10 points 9 months ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think defendants almost always start by pleading not guilty, then later accept a plea bargain.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

His defense should be insanity due to drinking too much of the municipal water.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Awful

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

With these guns storage laws, don't forget to hold gun safe manufactures responsible for selling ones that can be opend with a spoon. Lock Picking Lawyer

I say about a $10 million fine per unit sold with vulnerabilities that allows it to be opened non-destructivly (or minor cosmetic damage) without touching the lock mechanism.

$10 million if it can opened by sticking any object in the key way and it opens

$5 million if it requires a lock pick set, but can be opened by a noive in less than a minute.

$15 million if it uses a master lock.

Seem fair?

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago

I'm 100% for mandatory safe storage laws and prosecution of those who fail to do so, especially if that failure leads to injury, death, of theft of said firearm and that gun is used in a crime.

Unsecured handguns account for the majority of firearm suicide deaths in the United States, study finds

Overall, firearms used in unintentional injury deaths were often stored loaded (74%) and unlocked (76%) and were most commonly accessed from nightstands and other sleeping areas (30%).

It is difficult to ascertain the exact number of guns that are stolen from individuals in the United States because many of these thefts are not reported to law enforcement. However, estimates from a number of survey studies indicate that roughly 200,000 to 400,000 guns are stolen from individuals each year....Whether taken from gun stores or from individual gun owners, a firearm is stolen every 2 minutes. These stolen guns are often diverted directly into illegal trafficking networks and end up being used in the commission of violent crimes.

The Largest Source of Stolen Guns? Parked Cars.

All stolen guns are available to criminals by definition. Recent studies of adult and juvenile offenders show that many have either stolen a firearm or kept, sold, or traded a stolen firearm: According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft, and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns.

The Southern [of the USA] region has the highest percentage of house-holds with firearms and the least safe storage practices (Okoro et al. 2005). Not surprisingly, most Southern states are “exporters” of guns traced in crime (Mayors Against Illegal Guns 2010).

So the assholes that need to have guns with them, constantly available, unsecured, because the "might need to access them instantly" or some such nonsense are the very people feeding guns into criminals hands and causing death and injury via accidental shootings and suicides.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I told my 19-year-old sister-in-law that toddlers are kill-myself machines, she has a 2-year old who's always getting into the cabinets under this sink. She said that I was over reacting. I can't wait to show her this.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Let's be real, a 19 years old having a 2 years old to begging with is in itself a problem.

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