this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
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Palworld studio admits it can't "keep up" with cheaters, says anti-cheat solution on the way (www.eurogamer.net)
submitted 9 months ago by nanoUFO to c/games
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[–] [email protected] 132 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I always find it interesting how many people are welcoming kernel-level anti-cheat software. I dislike cheaters as well, but granting a part of a game essentially full access to my system isn't worth it at all in my opinion.

Also, I didn't even realize that people commonly play this game on a public server. I thought this was more like a co-op experience on a private server/invite basis, or solo.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You can rent a server with 32 slots and keep your progression playing with buddies. Better than the joining players having to restart their progression to play in co-op

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Yup, I'm actually hosting a Palworld server for friends on my root server. I think the invite-based multiplayer is limited to 4 players.

[–] MomoTimeToDie 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I always find it interesting how many people are welcoming kernel-level anti-cheat software

Imo it really depends on the game, and how much cheating can actually effect things, and as time goes on and technology develops, it will only become more relevant. I remember a headline a while back about a monitor that used machine learning to track the enemy team in league of legends by "watching" the map, and marking whenever an enemy is crossing a ward.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

If the code used to cheat runs outside of the machine the game is running on - as in your example - kernel level anti-cheat won't even do anything. What's next then? Allowing the game (we are talking about games, I want to make that very clear) to whitelist/blacklist attached peripherals? "Ah, sorry, you can only play this game with Razer or Corsair mice, because your noname mouse might be injecting inputs from cheat software."

Client-side anti-cheat is like validating payloads on the client side in web apps. It won't stop people who really want to break your game. Stop running shitty software on my computer. Anti-cheat needs to be server side, with (probably "AI" based) pattern recognition. If a cheater is found with some degree of certainty, let a human review the footage. Yes, these human employees cost money, but this is just the cost of running a (competitive) multiplayer game.

Instead, game developers/publishers add a crappy anti-cheat software. It's cheaper, but it's also worse in terms of actually stopping cheating and in terms of security for the computer running the game.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sorry to say but there are already peripherals that are blocked by anti cheat. Back when I bought Rust, i learned the hard way that their anti cheat blocks Input from the steam controller.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

That's insane.

[–] MomoTimeToDie -1 points 9 months ago

The problem is that most cheating is subtle. Sure, theres the idiots who just throw every cheat in the book, but especially at higher levels where people care most about the integrity of the competition, cheating is a lot more subtle and within human limits, such that "I'm just that good" or "I got lucky" would be an entirely valid defense.

If you don't like anti-cheat, don't play games with it.

[–] LdyMeow 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I’m not certain how what you said debates the other comment at all. Like I get that Chester will get more advanced or whatever, but allowing kernel level garbage is not ok to me. No matter the circumstances.

[–] MomoTimeToDie -2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I mean there's no point in debating in the first place if you've just drawn your line in the sand and don't give a fuck about anything else

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"I don't want to hand over compete kernel and administrative control of my PC just to play a game" seems like a pretty reasonable line to draw.

[–] MomoTimeToDie 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you like it, feel free. But it still isn't particularly conducive to debate if it's just your own line in the sand and you don't particularly care what anyone else thinks.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

The purpose of debate isn't necessarily to convince the person your debating against. It also helps sway others who might be party to the discussion. Just because I have a line in the sand re: turning over control of my computer doesn't mean I can't debate that point and offer my own reasons for taking that position, while someone contrary to that can explain theirs. Neither participant in the debate needs to budge in their position, but by both offering their reasoning it may be useful in persuading others to one of their sides.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah cheating is a lot worse for competitive games than for casual games. For example, it doesn't matter how well you make a fps game, if every game has one cheater in it, no one will play your game. Cheating affects more casual games as well though, although it usually only affects the economy (eg. If someone gets infinite resources with cheats then the price of that resource will plummet).

[–] MomoTimeToDie -2 points 9 months ago

if every game has one cheater in it, no one will play your game

Exactly this. Any game that even hopes to have a remotely decent competitive community needs to have a solid way of not just targeting cheaters after the fact, but in keeping them out of games. Because even if it's just something like 1 in 5 games being decided by cheats, if people become aware of it, any value people placed on a competitive ladder are going to evaporate overnight.

And for what it's worth, I fully support the ability to do things like local matches or private servers where anti cheat is partially or entirely disabled. I love modding and letting people play their own game their own way. But when it starts impacting other people's experiences, there need to be rules in place and enforced.

Oh, and for those people saying that no anti cheat should exist, go hop in an online match of splatoon 1 on Wii u, and honestly tell me if that's what you want out of a competitive game. Because that's what not targeting cheaters gets you

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I don't get the appeal of multi player in this game. Combat isn't hard. Is it just base building with friends?

[–] AChiTenshi 118 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The only anti cheat I need is a private server with my friends. If they cheat I can just make fun of them for having to do it.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago

Remember getting put in jails and generally shamed worked better than any anti-cheat. Anti-cheat really has become trying to fix the issue of taking the option of private moderated servers away from players

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If only they would fix the tiny annoyance of not saving local network settings. Just a pain to constantly having to type in the IP and password every time.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Yeah, but at least there's the recent servers tab on the left and you can use that to join your private servers without typing the server address every time, just the password. A friend had to tell me that as my eyes completely missed this tab existing.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 9 months ago (1 children)

why would a game like this need anti cheat at all? they are using their energy all wrong 🙈

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Because gamers have a large population of assholes who believe that making others get pissed off makes them feel better about themselves.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea 11 points 9 months ago

Just... play on a private server... Or single player.

[–] nanoUFO 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

DRG has no anticheat and has no issues with cheaters either.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I would not say that the game doesn't have an issue with cheaters but it's a different environment since it's a p2p environment where the host can easily kick a cheater out.

Very different from the palworld public, persistent servers.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's pokemon Ark, it doesn't need anticheat.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea 1 points 9 months ago

Yup, if you are worried about cheaters, play with people you trust or by yourself. I don't see any benefit to playing with randoms...

[–] AMillionNames 6 points 9 months ago

It's an uphill battle. Better to focus on allowing players to police themselves in close knit community servers.