this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
681 points (97.6% liked)

politics

19148 readers
1963 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Russian intelligence is operating a systematic program to launder pro-Kremlin propaganda through private relationships between Russian operatives and unwitting US and western targets, according to newly declassified US intelligence.

US intelligence agencies believe that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) is attempting to influence public policy and public opinion in the West by directing Russian civilians to build relationships with influential US and Western individuals and then disseminate narratives that support Kremlin objectives, obscuring the FSB’s role through layers of ostensibly independent actors.

“These influence operations are designed to be deliberately small scale, the overall goal being US [and] Western persons presenting these ideas, seemingly organic,” a US official authorized to discuss the material told CNN. “The co-optee influence operations are built primarily on personal relationships … they build trust with them and then they can leverage that to covertly push the FSB’s agenda.”

The campaigns have sometimes been effective at planting Russian narratives in the Western press, according to the intelligence. Maxim Grigoriev, who heads a Russian NGO, made multiple speeches to the UN presenting a false study that claimed the humanitarian group the White Helmets – which operates in Syria – was running a black market for human organs and had faked chemical attacks by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, with whom Russia is allied. Those claims eventually found their way into a television report on the far-right OANN in the United States, according to open-source materials provided by the official.

But the official stressed that the Western voices that eventually became mouthpieces for Russian propaganda were almost certainly unaware of the role they were playing.

“At the end of the day, this unwitting target is disseminating Russian influence operation, Russian propaganda to their target public,” the US official said. “Ultimately, a lot of these are unwitting people — they remain unaware who is essentially seeding these narratives.”

The intelligence provides several examples of Russian civilian “co-optees” doing the bidding of the FSB.

One man, Andrey Stepanenko, founded a media project in 2014 that sponsored journalists from the US and the West to visit eastern Ukraine and learn “the alleged truth” about what was happening in the region. In fact, the FSB directed his efforts and “almost certainly financed the project,” according to the declassified intelligence.

CNN was not able to locate Stepanenko to ask for comment.

The US official also cited Natalia Burlinova, the founder of a Russian NGO who routinely coordinated FSB-funded public diplomacy efforts aimed at influencing Western views. In 2018, she visited, had meetings and hosted events at multiple US think tanks and universities in New York, Boston and Washington – work that was funded by the FSB, according to the intelligence. Her conduct was already public: She was indicted earlier this year on charges of conspiring with an FSB officer to act as an illegal agent of Russia inside the United States, although she remains at liberty in Russia.

Burlinova in an email to CNN denied that her US trips in 2018 were financed by the FSB.

“All travel expenses were financed by a grant that we previously received from the Presidential Grants Fund, the main grant operator of Russia,” she said. “The FSB of Russia did not give me any money for the trip.”

The official declined to offer specifics to back up the intelligence community’s assertions that the FSB is funding this kind of operation but noted that once officials were able establish FSB backing, it is easy to trace the narratives they are pushing in open-source materials.

“Once you’re aware of who these people are and their association with the FSB, by nature of what they’re doing, they have very, very public personas,” the official said. “And so I would just say it’s not really difficult to kind of follow the strings.”

The US official declined to say whether Russia has used these same tactics to try to influence US elections.

The FSB does use similar tactics to influence political opinion within Russia, according to the intelligence. In one instance, a Russian media figure named Anton Tsvetkov organized protests outside of embassies in Moscow — including the US Embassy — at the FSB’s behest. The protests pushed Russia’s narrative of the war in Ukraine, “promoting the ‘Ukrainian Nazi’ narrative and blaming the U.S. and its allies for the deaths of children in the Donbass,” while hiding the Russian government’s role, according to the declassified intelligence.

“The purpose of those protests really was … designed to sell it to the Russian people,” the US official said.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 197 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Bro this isn't news. Its r/TheDonald, Lemmygrad, and half of youtube and facebook. This has been happening since 2016.

[–] [email protected] 87 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I’d still say it’s news, it’s just confirming that Russia has continued their same pattern of behavior. Early on the troll farms actually infiltrated communities (I remember reading that they targeted the Bernie subreddit too), but now they just upvote, like, and share unwitting US pawns

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yeah I thought it was weird when so many Bernie supporters switched to Trump. They're political opposites.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not just that. The whole “Bernie or bust, never support democrats again!” Stuff

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

There were waves of people who claimed that because their guy Bernie didn't get the nom, they threw a fit and were outright voting 3rd party instead of Biden. Of course, none of them ever went to the polls to vote in the primaries because [insert 14 different excuses]

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yeah, that stuff was incredibly transparent I don't think it got many real people.. But if they get just one in five hundred former supporters then it still moves the needle.

It's insane that our margins are what they are. A lot of this stuff just shouldn't have debate. It's too common sense.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

First past the post creates these razor thin margins. It's not organic. If we had a ranked choice required plurality then the margins would widen in most races and flip in others.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I know a former Bernie bro. He switched to trump because "the system fucked Bernie and trump is trying to fuck the system"

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lol who downvotes someone for telling a story. Come on guys, he’s not advocating for this, just sharing a story.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Give people a vote system and they'll prove they suck I guess. Thanks though

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I wonder if some of these were former Ron Paul types. I know I was briefly until I learned more about him. Honestly I just wanted weed to be legal nationally.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Honestly, I'm not sure. I know he worked for the DNC for a while, but I also know a deep end right winger became close friends with him so who the hell knows what happened. Dude always struck me as a bit impressionable

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Before the 2016 election, there were a few actually-good parts of Trump's platform that he had in common with Bernie, such as opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and a few other things that I can't remember at the moment.

Those commonalities were pretty much all either Trump supporting the right thing for the wrong reasons or just blatant lies, but some of the stupider Bernie supporters were duped, I guess?

(FWIW, I supported Bernie but still voted D in the 2016 and 2020 general elections.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And I'll likely vote against Biden in the primary, but when it comes to the general I'll compromise. Compromise is a core part of democracy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Exactly. I can't stand Hillary, but I absolutely voted for her in the general. Because the alternative was considerably worse. Many of us saw through Trump's bullshit and recognized him as having the complete opposite mentality of what makes somebody a good president. It's not even about politics. Trump isn't a politician! He bragged about dodging taxes. He bullies people. The list goes on and on. And when he was elected, many people were sounding the alarm that there's no way this guy is voluntarily leaving office. If he gets impeached and convicted, loses the re-election, or hits his 2 term limit, it was pretty obvious how he was going to act. And what really drove it home was the vast number of crimes he committed while in office. He knew that being president was the only thing shielding him from criminal prosecution. There's no way he was going to leave office peacefully. Even during the primaries, he refused to pledge his support to whoever won the nomination if it wasn't him. He shoved other world leaders out of the way so he could stand in front of them. He doctored a National Weather Service map with a sharpie because he couldn't possibly admit that he made a mistake about where a hurricane was headed. He spent his entire presidency bullying people on Twitter.

I mean, yeah, Hillary and Biden suck. They're neolibs. But if Trump is the alternative, I'll be the first in line to vote for the neolibs. And sadly, being in my 40s, Biden is probably the best president we've had in my lifetime. I may question his true allegiances, but I stand with nearly every decision he's made while he's been president. I just wish we could get a left wing populist president in my lifetime. Everybody thought Obama was that person, but I saw through his shit when he was campaigning. He made a lot of promises that he would never be able to keep, and when push came to shove he turned out to be a neolib all along. But if I had to choose between Obama and Trump, Obama all the way.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It wasn't even subtle.

I remember posts with thousands of upvotes from this website called thedurian. I googled the people who ran it, one of them had a linkedin which mentioned his location as Moscow and that he had previously worked for RT.

Given I was banned for posting screenshots, I suspect the mods of /r/thedonald were in on it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

TheDonald started as a joke that was legitimately funny. As soon as anyone tried to call it out as a joke, that person would be banned within seconds. That's not normal, volunteer moderation.

There were people with the power to ban paid to control that sub. They took shifts, likely from Russia.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Id rather be a Russian than a Democrat"

Right around the time Russians stopped being "damn commies" to "antidote to the degenerate west" to them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Oh SHIT I actually forgot that was a thing commonly heard. Frankly it's been brain breaking news headlines (and usually the even with context it was accurate headlines) since 2015 so hard to remember it all.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

It's also Tucker and Talk Radio.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

And there is literally nothing to declassify. This has been happening out in the open for years. The FBI has been warning us about this shit multiple times. Yet the funny think is that people don't think it is happening to them.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

This has been happening for way longer than that

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I noticed a decent number of Russian memes (before Trump) trying to make Russia and Putin look cool, and remember wondering if they were from Russians actually trying or from Westerners having lolz.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's another lemmy instance to watch out for??? Unless it's old hat already, I don't see much beyond .world stuff

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

hexbear is another one that's defederated thankfully

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

IIRC, lemmy.world defederated with lemmygrad a while ago.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah ty. Now I want something like r/subredditdrama but it's to keep track of this stuff lol. I miss consuming harmless drama

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Honestly there needs to be some way to easily see who is defederated from who, and ideally why.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

So far it's safe to assume it's because the user base are tankies/pro russia/far right and spread those comments while also causing problems in whatever instance defederalizes them. I just want the tea

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Really? Can you provide a link or the relevant search keywords to find such a thing?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thank you for supporting the 24h news cycle, where everything is breaking yet nothing matters past a day because „it isn’t news“ anymore.