Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected]
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected].
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
"If gender is a social construct then gender dysphoria is a purely mental illness and treating it with surgery is abhorrent to the exact same level as lobotomising hysterical women in the past."
I assume downvotes still aren't being federated on kbin because a lot of my more nuanced opinions don't seem to get bombed into oblivion here like on the rest of the interwebs.
I know this is probably bait, but I'd figured I'd try to explain the flaw in that logic.
Ignoring the fact that gender dysphoria is a real thing whereas hysteria isn't, there's a more fundamental issue:
I'm not sure how you can make this your premise; back then hysteria was very much "a real thing". Also one could say that doctors have manipulated people undergoing surgery now into giving consent
I could go into academic research and stuff that shows that it is real, but honestly I wouldn't find that convincing myself anyway. Research into mental health has historically been very slow and problematic.
Instead, nowadays I like to look at this through the angle of consent and agency.
If you look into trans communities like on Reddit and the fediverse, you find that a lot of them have positive personal experiences with going through surgeries. This is something as a community they talk about and recommend to each other as something that will help. I guess you might find people that don't like it, or insist that there should be more nuance or whatever. I don't know, I'm not trans and don't want to speak for them. As outsiders, we have no right to say what they can and can't do with their bodies if it doesn't cause anyone else harm.
Female hysteria, however, has always been a possessive thing. It's always been my wife must have hysteria because she wants to vote. My wife must have something wrong with her because she refuses to do the dishes. The women themselves don't really have a say, and if they do they only get listened to if they are good little wives.
I'd be highly skeptical if doctors were able to manipulate trans people into having surgeries. For starters, in many nationstates trans awareness and support is non-existent at best and genocidal at worst. Doctors absolutely would not want to force an unnecessary treatment that is also frowned upon by the state. Trans people have to fight so hard to get all the diagnosis and paperwork that they need to feel happy, and they sure as hell wouldn't do that if they didn't know it was helpful.
And, of course, with the rise of the internet and easy communication, if any medical practice is considered unethical or unhelpful, the community would turn on it super fast. Look at how badly conversion therapy for LGBT and autistic folks is seen nowadays.
absolutely, consent is the key.
I still think gender is purely performative and surgery can't fundamentally change that (currently).
I hope one day we get rid of all trans people ... because they can finish transitioning. /bait
Those ideas get you banned, not downvoted.
Anywhere that bans ideas isn't a place I want to be anyway. The woke crowd are fond of saying sunlight is the best disinfectant and just as fond of unironically sweeping dissent under the rug.
Not being silenced by actual fascists and being able to interrogate my beliefs was key in becoming better informed on a lot of subjects that don't have any place in my actual life.
You're being downvoted because you're operating with a theoretical framework which doesn't match what we actually see in reality.