How much Kratom do you usually have?

Since Kratom is relatively cheap and its regulatory future is uncertain, I’m trying to stock up. Currently, I’m sitting at 4 Kg, but would like to increase that to ~10 Kg.

Such stock would last me a couple of years. I can keep consuming the oldest packages while replenishing the stock.

Buying in bulk, I’m trying to find both good price and quality, but that’s not easy …

original: https://lemmy.world/post/3672406

thread on kbin.social: https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/371544/Do-you-stock-up-on-Kratom#comments

#kratom

Recent media reports about kratom-related deaths are leaving out basic information about these tragic events. Preexisting conditions and possible drug interactions are sparsely mentioned or left out of reports entirely. Media is also using the term “kratom” to describe all products, from fresh leaf to extract to kratom products mixed with other substances (such as phenibut, tianeptine, and kava).

For example, in a recent New York Post article, Jeanette Settembre wrote of Krystal Talavera, “her partner found her collapse beside a cup of hot coffee and an open bag of ‘Space Dust,’ one of the names under which kratom is marketed.” The only companies we have found selling a product called “Space Dust” is Kratom Distro, who sold this as an extremely strong extract to Ms. Talavera, and another company who was selling regular leaf powder, not an extract, under the same name.

Dr. Kirsten Smith of National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) joins us once again to talk about an upcoming comprehensive study that will include a detailed nationwide survey, testing of kratom samples, and testing select individual kratom consumers. We also cover several papers that Dr. Smith led or co-authored that have been published since her last appearance in summer of 2021 (Episode 55), addiction vs. dependence, dose escalation, and the role of extracts, kratom consumer demographics, a guide on kratom to educate healthcare providers, kratom as an alcohol replacement, an is kratom a gateway drug into opioids?

There are a few popular methods of using powdered leaf, but the most common are with capsules or tablets, “toss and wash”, mixing with food, and preparation as a tea. The following is a guide to help users discover their favorite way to enjoy kratom:

Same set up but on lemmy instead of kbin. More coming soon.

The alkaloid speciogynine may be a starting point for low-risk treatment

Self-reports of kratom use as an alcohol substitute exist online, though they have not been as well documented in the scientific literature as other motivations for kratom use, such as substitution for opiates (Smith et al, 2023). In one survey of US residents, 18% of current users and 11.5% of past users reported they used kratom “To cut down or quit using alcohol” (Coe et al, 2019).

This motivation has also been documented among Southeast Asian users who are more likely to engage in the centuries-old traditional practice of chewing fresh kratom leaf or preparing it as a tea (vs. eating dried powder and using extracts, more common in the West). A qualitative study of 34 Thai kratom users found:

Almost all regular krathom users did not drink alcohol although some used to drink it before being krathom chewers. Krathom was believed to be an aid to those who wanted to stop drinking. An ex-drinker explained:

“After I use krathom, I can’t stand the alcohol strong smell. If I drink even a bit, I would have an extreme headache and vomit, get sick and have a hangover. I cannot work and have to take a rest.”

The study also explained that kratom use in this region of Thailand was more socially acceptable than the use of alcohol, tobacco, or cannabis, in part because of better social functioning of people who use kratom over other drugs (Saingham et al, 2013). This implies a social motivation for someone to choose kratom over alcohol.

Found via: California Kratom Crook busted! Scam Ripoff Money Laundering 😮 - Double M Herbals

Press Release

Kratom Company and Owner Plead Guilty to Illegal Importation and Money Laundering

Monday, July 10, 2023

For Immediate Release

U.S. Attorney's Office, Southern District of California

[email protected]

NEWS RELEASE SUMMARY – July 10, 2023

SAN DIEGO – Nine2Five LLC and its owner, Sebastian Guthery, pleaded guilty in federal court today to felony crimes related to the illegal importation of kratom, an opioid-like plant, and the subsequent laundering of proceeds from the sale of the illegally imported product.

Mitragyna speciosa, commonly known as kratom, is indigenous to Southeast Asia. Its leaves, when ingested, have both narcotic and stimulant-like effects. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the use of kratom is associated with serious health risks, including but not limited to seizures, liver damage, addiction, and death. Side effects may also include respiratory depression, nervousness, agitation, aggression, sleeplessness, hallucinations, delusion, tremors, loss of libido, constipation, nausea, vomiting, and severe withdrawal signs and symptoms.

 On February 28, 2014, the FDA issued Import Alert 54-15, which directed inspectors to detain products that appeared to contain kratom as well as named product from specified firms without inspection, and to deny them entry into the United States. The Import Alert stated that the FDA had determined kratom to be a new dietary ingredient under section 413(d) of the Act, and deemed products intended for human consumption containing kratom to be adulterated food under section 402(f)(1)(B) of the Act because there was inadequate information to provide reasonable assurance that the new dietary ingredient kratom did not present a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury. This Import Alert remains in effect.

In pleading guilty, defendant Guthery admitted that, as the owner and operator of Nine2Five LLC, he caused the importation of 9,800 kg of kratom from Indonesia through a consignee named Middleton Central, LLC, by means of an invoice which falsely declared the product to be Flora Food Botanical Soil Conditioner (Eucheuma spinosum)/fertilizer, without reasonable cause to believe that was true. The invoice submitted on May 16, 2018, with the entry package, stated that the value of the goods was $61,728.

Defendant Nine2Five, LLC, in pleading guilty to money laundering, admitted that a Nine2Five, LLC. employee wired $60,000 from an account of Nine2Five, LLC at Wells Fargo Bank in San Diego, California, to Bank Mandiri in Indonesia for the cost of the purchase, transportation and importation of kratom from Indonesia on May 15, 2018. The funds constituted criminally derived proceeds of the illegal importation of kratom in the manner acknowledged by Guthery in his plea, which constituted a violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 542 and 545.

“Making false declarations about the nature of products imported into the United States will not be tolerated,” said U.S. Attorney Randy Grossman. “The Department of Justice and our agency partners are committed to protecting our nation from importation crimes and related offenses.” Grossman thanked the prosecution team plus the Internal Revenue Service, Homeland Security Investigations, and Customs and Border Protection agents for their excellent work on this case.

“HSI San Diego is deeply immersed in the global fight against illegal importation and money laundering,” said Chad Plantz, special agent in charge for HSI San Diego. “Attempting to smuggle even more harmful substances into our communities will not be tolerated. Further, deceiving law enforcement is illegal and by doing so only increases the severity of penalties. HSI is actively engaged with law enforcement partners and task forces to bring perpetrators who knowingly and willingly break the law to justice.”

“Sebastian Guthery and Nine2Five LLC went unchecked by mislabeling imports of kratom to evade detection and inspection by U.S. authorities and laundering the criminally derived proceeds internationally to purchase more kratom. The import laws and regulations are in place to protect our citizens and our nation,” said Tyler Hatcher, Special Agent in Charge of IRS Criminal Investigation Los Angeles Field Office. “This should put the kratom industry on notice, illegally importing products into the United States for your own financial gain is a crime and disregarding U.S. import laws and import alerts will not go unnoticed, you will be held accountable.”

Sentencing for both defendants is scheduled to take place on October 6, 2023 at 9:30 a.m. before U.S. District Judge Todd W. Robinson.

DEFENDANTS Case Number 23cr179-TWR

• Nine2Five, LLC Formed: 2012 Carlsbad, CA

• Sebastian Guthery Age: 40 Carlsbad, CA

SUMMARY OF CHARGES

• Defendant Sebastian Guthery

• Entry of Goods by Means of False Statement – Title 18, U.S.C., Section 542

• Maximum Penalty: Two years in prison and/or $250,000 fine

• Defendant Nine2Five LLC

• Money Laundering – Title 18, U.S.C., Section 1957

• Maximum penalty: Five years of probation and $500,000 fine for an organization

AGENCIES

• Internal Revenue Service

• Homeland Security Investigations

• Customs and Border Protection

Contact

Assistant U. S. Attorneys Melanie K. Pierson (619) 546-7976 and Joseph Orabona (619) 546-7951|

Updated July 10, 2023

---

Component

USAO - California, Southern

Press Release Number: CAS23-0710-Guthery

This has been bugging me for a long time. Every time if I am lucky enough to see a lab result from a reputed trusted vendor I am astonished...

Following up on previous post Other kratom communities, here are links to RSS feeds to those communities where I was able to find them. For those who are interested. :)

• https://kbin.social/rss?magazine=kratom

• https://sh.itjust.works/feeds/c/kratom.xml?sort=Active

• https://lemmy.world/feeds/c/kratom.xml?sort=Active

• https://lemmy.ml/feeds/c/kratom.xml?sort=Active

On lemmy you can add some arguments to the end of the URL if you want, for example, https://sh.itjust.works/feeds/c/kratom.xml?sort=Active but I haven't explored this much.

Outside the fediverse:

https://old.reddit.com/r/kratom/.rss

https://old.reddit.com/r/kratomm/.rss

If I missed any, or if you have a better version of the above feeds, please share!

I am so sorry for this family and the loss of their child.

Grieving people are not policy experts though. I don't know the details of the death report for this case but there are all kinds of issues with them in the US.

The lawyers actually say they agree with many kratom users on some issues: that there should be regulation, safety warnings and limit to extravagant claims of benefit. However they then go on to conflate plant product with extracts.

This video contains multiple unsourced "quotes" (like literally displayed on screen text with quotes around them) making strong factual claims. Then a strawman attributed to "critics" is used to seem balanced.

x-posting link from [email protected] for the comments

Mitragyna speciosa (commonly known as kratom, a herbal leaf from a tree of the Rubiaceae family) is a tropical evergreen tree in the coffee family native to Southeast Asia. It is indigenous to Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Myanmar, and Papua New Guinea, where it has been used in herbal medicine since at least the 19th century. It has also historically been used for chewing, smoking, and tea. Kratom has opioid properties and some stimulant-like effects.As of 2018, the efficacy and safety of kratom are unclear. Although it was a federally legal dietary supplement, it was not approved as a therapeutic agent in the United States due to the poor quality of the research. In 2019, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) stated that there is no evidence that kratom is safe or effective for treating any condition. Some people take it for managing chronic pain, for treating opioid withdrawal symptoms, or for recreational...

Purpose, Rules & Guidelines for @kratom

Hello and welcome to a new community on kbin.social which is all about kratom!

This is intended to be a living document so please post comments.

Purpose of this community

The purpose of @kratom is to provide a welcoming and level-headed place to discuss kratom (Mitragyna speciosa).

Some examples of the kinds of things that would be on topic here:

• Community and peer support between kratom users
• News related to kratom
• Scientific research regarding kratom
• Safe and effective use of kratom
• Problems related to kratom use
• History of kratom
• Future of kratom
• Legal statuses of kratom
• How to use kratom
• Kratom production at industrial/commercial scale
• Trade news
• Kratom gardening
• Organizations which have positions on kratom
• Kratom use around the world
• Ethnobotany of kratom
• Chemistry of kratom
• Other forums where kratom is discussed
• Community creation of resources
• Media coverage of kratom
• Upcoming events, online or in real life
• Attitudes of health care workers towards kratom
• Traveling with kratom
• Stopping use of kratom

This community has a bias

This is intended to be a broadly "pro kratom" community. Since nothing is perfect, not even kratom, it is also OK to discuss problems.

However it is not necessarily an "advocacy" community. Community standards are not primarily set on the basis of how they will make kratom "look" to outsiders.

Rules

Rule #1: Do not spread misinformation

Do not spread misinformation. Post in good-faith. Speak honestly but do not incite fear or panic, particularly when speaking of safety or legality.

If you believe a participant is intentionally spreading misinformation, please report it.

Rule #2: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Self-reports that make extreme claims of catastrophic harm or beneficial results beyond what is identified in scientific research literature may be removed and held for review.

The moderators may request additional information from participants before approving these items.

Rule #3: Non commercial only

The purpose of this rule is not to avoid "illegal activity". I am simply not interested in running a marketplace.

This rule extends beyond kratom or its derivatives. It includes sales of books, t shirts, patreons, classes, professional services or anything else.

Lots of communities on topics which are totally not stigmatized, legal the world round and uncontroversial have similar rules. It could be laptops or puppies or knitting. The intention is similar here.

No transacting

This community is intended to be non-commercial and non-transactional.

Examples of commercial or transactional activity:

• vendor ads, linking to vendors
• posts which heavily imply someone is a vendor in order to get people to PM you
• requests for vendor information, referrals, experiences
• vendor reviews
• posts selling your personal kratom
• discount codes, promotions, sales
• advertisements for businesses or anything for sale
• affiliate links or codes
• give-aways, vendor or otherwise
• links to products for sale
• photos of packaging
• swaps

If the likely, immediate result of a post or comment is someone making money or otherwise gaining materially, then it is prohibited.

Obviously, obtaining kratom is important to a lot of us, myself included. I am not opposed to linking to other reputable communities where transactions are approved.

No sourcing

To be extremely clear: No sourcing.

Includes plants and seeds. No vendor participation. No discussion of vendors/brands. This rule also applies to recommending American Kratom Association (AKA) approved vendors. No requesting/offering vendor recommendations - directly or via PM. PMs are your own private business but mentioning them on the community makes them public community business. Violations may result in a ban from the community.

Do not discuss payments

Discussing payments for goods in any capacity is strictly forbidden. This includes CC processors, online processors and apps (PayPal, Amazon Pay, CirclePay, Venmo, Square, Zelle etc.), and services like Coinbase. Legality notwithstanding, kratom is against their terms of service and they have been aggressively enforcing this. Consequently, vendors have difficulty maintaining payment processors.

Rule #4: No bigotry

This community is intended to be welcoming to a diverse range of people.

Shit talking will be especially frowned upon when it has its basis in:

• diagnosis, illness, health issues
• body size, personal appearance
• other substances, drugs, or medication used
• visible or invisible disability
• gender identity and expression, sexual identity and orientation
• education, socio-economic status
• nationality, immigration status
• race, caste, color, ethnicity
• level of experience
• incarceration
• religion
• age

Examples of unacceptable behavior include:

• The use of sexualized language or imagery, and sexual attention or advances of any kind
• Trolling, insulting or derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
• Public or private harassment
• Publishing others' private information, such as a physical or email address, without their explicit permission
• Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting

Guidelines

A guideline is more flexible than a rule.

Be nice

Treat each other with respect. Do not be hostile or rude. Do not call people names. Insults will not be tolerated and may result in a ban from the community.

Everyone has their own individual experience. Share your own and do not judge that of others. Do not generalize your experiences to suggest that what happened to you will happen to everyone.

Avoid stigmatizing substances

It doesn't help kratom or kratom users to knock down people who use, or have used other substances.

People use illicit substances, prescription medications, research chemicals and other chemical tools for all kinds of reasons. They might want to start or stop using these at different times in their lives.

It is not "more legitimate" to use kratom for one reason than for another.

Debates about chemistry, effects, are fine. Sharing your history and what led you to be the person you are today is fine.

Not everyone shares your context

When talking about laws, attitudes, conventions etc, don't assume everyone is in a similar place to you. If you are requesting or sharing information that is highly context-specific, you will need to mention that.

We are learning and growing together

Everyone in the community should give each other the benefit of the doubt that they are acting in good faith.

Kratom brings together people from all around the world. We all have our own histories and baggage.

Nuts and bolts of @kratom

Where @kratom lives

This community lives on the "fediverse". It is a network of websites looking to replace monopolistic social media with a more dispersed model. It is a pretty new way of doing things, so expect changes in how it works. We are making the road by walking it.

It is possible to view and interact with the community from a variety of different "instances" or websites.

This community was established on kbin.social. The most accurate and complete view of it is to visit through this URL: https://kbin.social/m/kratom

Who moderates?

This community was created by @noban who is currently the sole moderator.

If you are viewing the community in the "fediverse" (from a website other than kbin.social) it may list another person as the moderator. Usually whoever runs the website. That person likely has no actual interest or involvement here.

Moderation guidelines

Mods are responsible for clarifying and enforcing our standards of acceptable behavior and will take appropriate and fair corrective action in response to any behavior that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful.

Mods have the right and responsibility to remove, restrict comments, posts and other contributions that are not aligned with the community purpose, rules and guidelines, and will communicate reasons for moderation decisions when appropriate.

Moderator responsibilities:

• Abide by all of the above rules as would be expected of anyone else
• Solicit feedback
• Integrate feedback into moderation practices
• Explain decisions when required or requested
• Enforce rules evenhandedly
• Admit to mistakes

That being said, one forum isn't going to be all things to all people. As the community evolves we might find that there are fundamental differences of opinions and goals. Cross that bridge if we get to it.

Moderation log

The kbin software that runs the forum records all mod actions. There are publicly available in the Moderation log

Last Revised

• July 23, 2023

Inspiration and sources

To create this, I borrowed from existing work done by others:

• reddit.com/r/kratom rules which can be viewed on reddit or on the wayback machine
• Creative Commons Open Source Code of Conduct

Hello to anyone who has stumbled in here. I am working on setting this place up. Check back soon.

Here are some other places where kratom is discussed. They are not specifically endorsed by this community. Just for informational purposes.

communities in the fediverse

Due to inconsistencies in how links to communities are handled, I have included each link in different formats. If one doesn't work try the next one on the same line. The best way to see all content in a community is to view it on the original instance (last link).

• [email protected]: !kratom | @kratom | lemmy.world/c/kratom
• [email protected]: !kratom | @kratom | sh.itjust.works/c/kratom
• [email protected]: !kratom | @kratom | lemmy.ml/c/kratom
• [email protected]: !kratom | @kratom | kbin.social/m/kratom

Kratom communities outside the fediverse:

• Double M Herbals | Kratom Forum
• reddit.com/r/Kratomm
• reddit.com/r/Kratom